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Re: EBusiness Webforms: cluetrain has left the station
Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
>
> Although it's like a total shock to 99.999% (5nines) of all the
> employed website designers out there, the truth is webforms /can/
> accept "U.S. of A" as a country. Incredible, but true. Web forms can
> also accept /multiple/ or even /free-form/ telephone numbers and can
> even be partitioned into manageable steps. All this can also be done
> without selling exclusive rights to your wallet to the World's
> Second-Richest Corporation (assuming Cisco is still #1) and vendor
> locking your business into their "small transaction fee" tithe.
Ah, but you've just gotten to the crux of the
situation. There's good design and bad design.
There's good testing and bad testing. The problem
is, anyone can design a good Web form, but nobody
does. I think "best practices" hasn't caught up
on main street Web enablement yet. There's some
really great packages on how to do this stuff and
in fact the usability people knew that Web forms needed
to be fixed 5 years ago, so that's why we got XForms
and XHTML. You can shoot yourself in the foot and
people usually do. What the problem is, they don't
even recognize that they're gimpy--ever. They just
keeping trundling along making a mess of everything
assured in their job security that they can build
Web forms without even caring if they can be
used or not beyond their test machine.
If you had a piece of software and a security warning
came out 5 years ago on it, would you run that software?
Wouldn't you have patched or upgraded something so fundamentally
broken 4 years and 11 months ago? What I want to know
is why would someone use Web forms best practices from
5 years ago? I mean you can get a college degree in that
time. Imagine if the next version of Microsoft Windows
or Red Hat Linux forced you to use a tiled window
manager? Sure, tiled windows were the best we had for
a brief period of time, but they are completely useless
except for some terminal based replacement applications.
The bottom line is, if you can't get across the
bridge, then it's broken regardless of whose fault
it really is, and it's the business that
needs to take responsibility as they are the ones that
wanted to put the bridge there in the first place.
Greg
| 0 |
Re: Content management for MP3s
At 09:02 AM 9/29/02 -0700, Elias wrote:
>I'm about to undertake a massive project to index/catalog well over one
>thousand CDs that have been ripped to MP3 and set up a server to stream
>them to different rooms in the house. (Yes, I own them all, no I'm not
>broadcasting them to the 'net.) Can anyone give me some recommendations as
>to what (free? opensource?) software is best suited for this task? I know
>there are a few FoRKs out there who have tackled this problem before...
See if http://www.jwz.org/gronk/ meets your needs.
Udhay
--
((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
| 0 |
A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20020905brian5.asp
| 0 |
NYTimes.com Article: Vast Detail on Towers' Collapse May Be Sealed
This article from NYTimes.com
has been sent to you by khare@alumni.caltech.edu.
Another reminder that the moral writ of intellectual property is -- and ought to --be more limited than real property. Private money paid for these bits, but expropriation may be fairer for IP than real-P.
Rohit
khare@alumni.caltech.edu
Vast Detail on Towers' Collapse May Be Sealed
September 30, 2002
By JAMES GLANZ and ERIC LIPTON
What is almost certainly the most sophisticated and
complete understanding of exactly how and why the twin
towers of the World Trade Center fell has been compiled as
part of a largely secret proceeding in federal court in
Lower Manhattan.
Amassed during the initial stages of a complicated
insurance lawsuit involving the trade center, the
confidential material contains data and expert analysis
developed by some of the nation's most respected
engineering minds. It includes computer calculations that
have produced a series of three-dimensional images of the
crumpled insides of the towers after the planes hit,
helping to identify the sequence of failures that led to
the collapses.
An immense body of documentary evidence, like maps of the
debris piles, rare photos and videos, has also been
accumulated in a collection that far outstrips what
government analysts have been able to put together as they
struggle to answer the scientifically complex and
emotionally charged questions surrounding the deadly
failures of the buildings.
But everyone from structural engineers to relatives of
victims fear that the closely held information, which
includes the analysis and the possible answers that
families and engineers around the world have craved, may
remain buried in sealed files, or even destroyed.
Bound by confidentiality agreements with their clients, the
experts cannot disclose their findings publicly as they
wait for the case to play out. Such restrictions are
typical during the discovery phase of litigation. And as it
now stands, the judge in the case - who has agreed that
certain material can remain secret for the time being - has
approved standard legal arrangements that, should the
lawsuit be settled before trial, could cause crucial
material generated by the competing sides to be withheld.
"We're obviously in favor of releasing the information, but
we can't until we're told what to do," said Matthys Levy,
an engineer and founding partner at Weidlinger Associates,
who is a consultant in the case and the author of "Why
Buildings Fall Down: How Structures Fail" (Norton, 2nd
edition, 2002).
"Let's just say we understand the mechanics of the whole
process" of the collapse, Mr. Levy said.
Monica Gabrielle, who lost her husband, Richard, when the
south tower fell and who is a member of the Skyscraper
Safety Campaign, said the information should be disclosed.
"If they have answers and are not going to share them, I
would be devastated," Mrs. Gabrielle said. "They have a
moral obligation."
The lawsuit that has generated the information involves
Larry A. Silverstein, whose companies own a lease on the
trade center property, and a consortium of insurance
companies. Mr. Silverstein maintains that each jetliner
that hit the towers constituted a separate terrorist
attack, entitling him to some $7 billion, rather than half
that amount, as the insurance companies say.
As both sides have prepared their arguments, they have
spent hundreds of thousands of dollars acquiring expert
opinion about exactly what happened to the towers.
Dean Davison, a spokesman for Industrial Risk Insurers of
Hartford, one of the insurance companies in the suit, said
of the findings, "There are some confidentiality agreements
that are keeping those out of the public domain today." He
conceded that differing opinions among the more than 20
insurers on his side of the case could complicate any
release of the material.
As for his own company, whose consultants alone have
produced more than 1,700 pages of analysis and thousands of
diagrams and photographs, Mr. Davison said every attempt
would be made to give the material eventually to "public
authorities and investigative teams."
Still, some of that analysis relies on information like
blueprints and building records from other sources, like
the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which built
and owned the trade center and supports Mr. Silverstein in
the suit. Mr. Davison said he was uncertain how the
differing origins of the material would influence his
company's ability to release information.
In a statement, the Port Authority said access to documents
would be "decided on a case-by-case basis consistent with
applicable law and policy," adding that it would cooperate
with "federal investigations."
The fate of the research is particularly critical to
resolve unanswered questions about why the towers fell,
given the dissatisfaction with the first major inquiry into
the buildings' collapse. That investigation, led by the
Federal Emergency Management Agency, was plagued by few
resources, a lack of access to crucial information like
building plans, and infighting among experts and officials.
A new federal investigation intended to remedy those
failings has just begun at the National Institute of
Standards and Technology, or NIST, an agency that has
studied many building disasters.
Officials with NIST have said it could take years to make
final determinations and recommendations for other
buildings, a process they now acknowledge might be speeded
up with access to the analysis done by the consultants on
the lawsuit.
Gerald McKelvey, a spokesman for Mr. Silverstein, said of
the real estate executive's own heavily financed
investigative work, "We decline to comment other than to
say that Silverstein is cooperating fully with the NIST
investigation." A spokesman for the agency confirmed it was
in discussions with Mr. Silverstein on the material, but
said no transfer had taken place.
With no shortage of money or expertise, investigations by
both sides in the legal case have produced a startling body
of science and theory, some of it relevant not only to the
trade center disaster but to other skyscrapers as well.
"The work should be available to other investigators," said
Ramon Gilsanz, a structural engineer and managing partner
at Gilsanz Murray Steficek, who was a member of the earlier
inquiry. "It could be used to build better buildings in the
future."
Legal experts say confidentiality arrangements like the one
governing the material can lead to a variety of outcomes,
from full or partial disclosure to destruction of such
information. In some cases, litigants who paid for the
reports may make them public themselves. Or they may ask to
have them sealed forever.
"It is not unusual for one party or another to try to keep
some of those documents secret for one reason or another,
some legitimate, some not," said Lee Levine, a First
Amendment lawyer at Levine Sullivan & Koch in Washington.
Mr. Levine said that because of the presumed value of the
information, the court might look favorably on requests to
make it public. But the uncertainty over the fate of the
material is unnerving to many people, especially experts
who believe that only a complete review of the evidence -
not piecemeal disclosures by litigants eager to protect
their own interests - could lead to an advance in the
federal investigation of the trade center.
"It's important for this to get presented and published and
subjected to some scrutiny," said Dr. John Osteraas,
director of civil engineering practice at Exponent Failure
Analysis in Menlo Park, Calif., and a consultant on the
case, "because then the general engineering community can
sort it out."
The scope of the investigation behind the scenes is vast by
any measure. Mr. Levy and his colleagues at Weidlinger
Associates, hired by Silverstein Properties, have called
upon powerful computer programs, originally developed with
the Pentagon for classified research, to create a model of
the Sept. 11 attack from beginning to end.
The result is a compilation of three-dimensional images of
the severed exterior columns, smashed floor and damaged
core of the towers, beginning with the impacts and
proceeding up to the moments of collapse. Those images -
which Mr. Levy is not allowed to release - have helped
pinpoint the structural failures.
The FEMA investigators did not have access to such computer
modeling. Nor did the FEMA team have unfettered access to
the trade center site, with all its evidence, in the weeks
immediately after the attacks. But no such constraints
hampered engineers at LZA/Thornton-Tomasetti, brought to
the site for emergency work beginning on the afternoon of
Sept. 11. Daniel A. Cuoco, the company president and a
consultant to Silverstein Properties on the case, said he
had assembled detailed maps of the blazing debris at ground
zero in models that perhaps contain further clues about how
the towers fell.
Though the FEMA team could not determine "where things
actually fell," Mr. Cuoco said, "we've indicated the
specific locations."
Mr. Cuoco said he could not reveal any additional details
of the findings. Nor would Mr. Osteraas discuss the details
of computer calculations his company has done on the spread
of fires in large buildings like the twin towers. Mr.
Osteraas has also compiled an extensive archive of
photographs and videos of the towers that day, some of
which he believes have not been available to other
investigators.
And the investigation has not limited itself to computers
and documentary evidence. For months, experiments in wind
tunnels in the United States and Canada have been examining
the aerodynamics that fed the flames that day and stressed
the weakening structures.
Jack Cermak, president of Cermak Peterka Peterson in Fort
Collins, Colo., was retained by the insurance companies but
had previously performed wind-tunnel studies for the
original design of the twin towers nearly 40 years ago. For
the legal case, Dr. Cermak said, "we've done probably more
detailed measurements than in the original design."
"The data that have been acquired are very valuable in
themselves for understanding how wind and buildings
interact," Dr. Cermak said. "Some of the information may be
valuable for the litigation," he said, adding, "I think
I've told you all I can."
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/30/nyregion/30TOWE.html?ex=1034388663&ei=1&en=0d3143a997e5e2e1
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Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company
| 0 |
Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
Michael wrote:
>
> http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20020905brian5.asp
I thought this nekkid URL was going to be about the
infringement of 1st amendment rights for broadcasters
and proposed campaign finanice restrictions preventing them
from making money on advertisements that are deemed
thinly veiled campaign contributions by some arbitrary
government board. As it was posted to "discussion" I
thought there'd be some.
Instead it's a Post-Gazette column by Brian O'Neill
lamenting the fact that some people know how to
fill out a permit so that they can take advantage
of their right to peaceable assembly. Obviously
he's poking fun at the idea that specific groups
get specific "zones" and that it's not up to the
police to decide what messages and signs get put into
what zones to most expediently keep order.
The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
political rallies that you don't agree with has become
common practice. The courts have constantly ruled
that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
They teach you that your very first year of law school.
I think that given the information as laid out by the story,
Mr. O'Neill has confused free speech with action. Free
speech or even protected speech as practiced by almost
every American seems to involve the ability to communicate
an idea to an unknown audience. Action involves directing
a specific comment to a specific well-defined individual or audience
that has immediate, harmful, and sometimes physical
effects that is easily forseeable by any reasonable person.
I think Bill Neel of Butler needs to go back to school
as obviously he must have been sleeping in his civics
class or else they didn't teach civics in mini-guantanamo, OH
65 years ago.
Greg
| 0 |
Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
Owen Byrne wrote:
> What a load of crap. Politics are somehow more muddy now? I'd say that
> its considerably
> clearer - the vast majority of people feel disenfranchised, and the
> common practice of
> putting protestors in boxes is done usually to hide them from TV
> cameras, visiting dignitaries,
> etc, further exacerbating those feelings.
> "Unpeaceably disrupting political rallies" is now usually done by police
> with riot gear and pepper spray.
>
> We had a good one here a month or so ago - a few people peaceably
> strayed from the permit area,
> which was nearly a mile from the site of the meeting of finance
> ministers held here (the motorcade drove
> by it for about 10 seconds), and were immediately gassed, beaten and
> arrested. Not very muddied at all.
What does that exactly have to do with the statement that
distruption of peacable political assembly has become
a common practice disruption tool? It's an observation
not a judgement, comment, approval. You've focused on the
word "muddy" to use it in a different context than the one
I posted.
Maybe the distinction I was trying to make was too subtle and
I was trying to be too clever with my writing this morning.
Let me summarize the important parts of my post for you: I
have a premise that there is a difference between free and protected
speech and action. I think O'Neill on his soapbox doesn't
understand the distinction.
All better?
Greg
| 0 |
Re[2]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
>>
>> http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20020905brian5.asp
GAB> I thought this nekkid URL was going to be about the
GAB> infringement of 1st amendment rights for broadcasters
GAB> and proposed campaign finanice restrictions preventing them
GAB> from making money on advertisements that are deemed
GAB> thinly veiled campaign contributions by some arbitrary
GAB> government board. As it was posted to "discussion" I
GAB> thought there'd be some.
GAB> Instead it's a Post-Gazette column by Brian O'Neill
GAB> lamenting the fact that some people know how to
GAB> fill out a permit so that they can take advantage
GAB> of their right to peaceable assembly. Obviously
GAB> he's poking fun at the idea that specific groups
GAB> get specific "zones" and that it's not up to the
GAB> police to decide what messages and signs get put into
GAB> what zones to most expediently keep order.
Oh thats right Greg. Because was explicitly clear that the pro-Bush
folks went out and did the permit dance. So where in the article is
this again?
Lets get something straight here. This -is- a First Amendment issue.
Public streets, provided one isn't blocking traffic, generally tend to
be sorta ok, at least from my last interpretation of Con Law a few
years ago (I'll feign ignorance wrt the fact that laws may have
changed, and the specific facts in this case are weak). IF this guy
_was_ merely holding a sign (which it seems was the case for all the
pro-bush folks) he did nothing wrong. He certainly didn't do enough
of a wrong to warrant a disorderly conduct charge.
I'll play with your perspective though. Lets assume a few things.
If I walk into the city office and tell them I want to peacably
assemble against Bush, do you think they'll give me a permit?
Probably not. So I lie. Then the cop does what happened in this
scenario. HE walks up, checks my permit and finds out that I
falsified my statement to get this said document. He arrests me.
End of story.
GAB> The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
GAB> nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
GAB> political rallies that you don't agree with has become
GAB> common practice. The courts have constantly ruled
GAB> that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
GAB> They teach you that your very first year of law school.
I'll agree with Owen on this one. Muddied my ass. How hard is it to
chose between a Republocrat or a Demipublican? Not very. Shouting
down has grown to become the answer because the government, over a
span of years, and with the help of the Courts -has- limited the
rights we have as citizens under the First Amendment. If you
question the policy about terrorism, or drugs, or Iraq, or Bush in
general, you're aiding terrorism. If you challenge the beliefs of
the folks attending the various shadowy G8 conferences, you're an
anarchist, and you're herded off to a 'designated protest spot' miles
away from anything. Part of the point of speech is to be -heard-.
I can scream on my soapbox in the forest somewhere, and while thats
speech, its not effective speech. People are screaming and shouting
over the political figures because they cannot be heard in any other
way.
GAB> I think that given the information as laid out by the story,
GAB> Mr. O'Neill has confused free speech with action. Free
GAB> speech or even protected speech as practiced by almost
GAB> every American seems to involve the ability to communicate
GAB> an idea to an unknown audience. Action involves directing
GAB> a specific comment to a specific well-defined individual or audience
GAB> that has immediate, harmful, and sometimes physical
GAB> effects that is easily forseeable by any reasonable person.
Getting back to my original point. How do you communicate an idea to
an unknown audience, if you're miles from where the audience is? How
do you bypass the rules for being -miles- away from the audience
without violating the rules of the regime? I don't think Mr. Nell was
throwing pies at Bush. A sign, the last time I checked, didn't cause
physical injury, or even emotional harm. If I remember Cohen v.
California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971), its not the individual speaking that
has the requirement to desist, but the individual listening who has
the option to leave.
Just my .02, while its still considered legal.
--
Best regards,
bitbitch mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net
| 0 |
RE: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
> The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
> nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
> political rallies that you don't agree with has become
> common practice. The courts have constantly ruled
> that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
> They teach you that your very first year of law school.
>
I don't think politics is any muddier. People are becoming increasingly
unethical. It's a breakdown in home training.
Bill
| 0 |
Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:
>at zones to most expediently keep order.
>
>The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
>nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
>political rallies that you don't agree with has become
>common practice. The courts have constantly ruled
>that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
>They teach you that your very first year of law school.
>
>
What a load of crap. Politics are somehow more muddy now? I'd say that
its considerably
clearer - the vast majority of people feel disenfranchised, and the
common practice of
putting protestors in boxes is done usually to hide them from TV
cameras, visiting dignitaries,
etc, further exacerbating those feelings.
"Unpeaceably disrupting political rallies" is now usually done by police
with riot gear and pepper spray.
We had a good one here a month or so ago - a few people peaceably
strayed from the permit area,
which was nearly a mile from the site of the meeting of finance
ministers held here (the motorcade drove
by it for about 10 seconds), and were immediately gassed, beaten and
arrested. Not very muddied at all.
Owen
| 0 |
MIT OpenCourseWare
Looks useful. Hopefully, they'll put up some more material soon.
http://ocw.mit.edu/global/all-courses.html
| 0 |
RE: Re[2]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
>
> GAB> The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
> GAB> nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
> GAB> political rallies that you don't agree with has become
> GAB> common practice. The courts have constantly ruled
> GAB> that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
> GAB> They teach you that your very first year of law school.
>
> I'll agree with Owen on this one. Muddied my ass. How hard is it to
> chose between a Republocrat or a Demipublican? Not very. Shouting
> down has grown to become the answer because the government, over a
> span of years, and with the help of the Courts -has- limited the
> rights we have as citizens under the First Amendment.
Wishful thinking. People are just bigger dickheads now. Culture is changing
and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down
when you disagree with them. The people that do this are NOT
disenfranchised. They
get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes. The act of protesting is
more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these
people.
> question the policy about terrorism, or drugs, or Iraq, or Bush in
> general, you're aiding terrorism. If you challenge the beliefs of
> the folks attending the various shadowy G8 conferences, you're an
> anarchist, and you're herded off to a 'designated protest spot' miles
> away from anything. Part of the point of speech is to be -heard-.
> I can scream on my soapbox in the forest somewhere, and while thats
> speech, its not effective speech. People are screaming and shouting
> over the political figures because they cannot be heard in any other
> way.
And where does this end? Shouting down speakers is an obviously stupid
tactic if they are -really- interested in advocating change. Are they such
clueless social morons that they don't see this or are they just interested
in stroking their pathetic egos?
OBTW, 'clueless social moron syndrom' does not have political boundaries.
Bill
| 0 |
Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
Bill Stoddard wrote:
>
> Wishful thinking. People are just bigger dickheads now.
nah, they've always been this way.
> Culture is changing and it is becoming acceptable to get in
> peoples face and shout them down when you disagree with them.
culture changing, yeh. 'those who fail to learn from history..'
what does it tell you when a market chain is named 'bread and circus'
and no-one twigs?
--
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
| 0 |
Re[2]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
>>
>>Wishful thinking. People are just bigger dickheads now. Culture is changing
>>and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down
>>when you disagree with them. The people that do this are NOT
>>disenfranchised. They
>>get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes. The act of protesting is
>>more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these
>>people.
>>
>>
OB> In my experience, this is classic "American" behaviour, and I don't
OB> think its on the increase outside of the US of A.
OB> I am willing to accept the premise that Americans are bigger dickheads
OB> then they used to be.
*sighs*
Right. Because Americans are the only people capable of being
assholes. Shit. History keeps fucking up when they keep mentioning
all the historical examples of dickhead-ness that have proceeded the
US.
After all, we're the only country who gets unruly when it comes to
issues. Thats why its always just the Americans at those crazy WTO
meetings... Right, Owen?
--
Best regards,
bitbitch mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net
| 0 |
Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
>>>Wishful thinking. People are just bigger dickheads now. Culture is changing
>>>and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down
>>>when you disagree with them. The people that do this are NOT
>>>disenfranchised. They
>>>get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes. The act of protesting is
>>>more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these
>>>people.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>OB> In my experience, this is classic "American" behaviour, and I don't
>OB> think its on the increase outside of the US of A.
>OB> I am willing to accept the premise that Americans are bigger dickheads
>OB> then they used to be.
>
>*sighs*
>
>Right. Because Americans are the only people capable of being
>assholes. Shit. History keeps fucking up when they keep mentioning
>all the historical examples of dickhead-ness that have proceeded the
>US.
>
>After all, we're the only country who gets unruly when it comes to
>issues. Thats why its always just the Americans at those crazy WTO
>meetings... Right, Owen?
>
>
>
>
>
A flippant remark that I will probably regret - sure there's assholes
everywhere. I just remember a lunch in Spain with
a semi-famous American - I think we had about 10 nationalities at the
table, and he managed to insult each of them within
15 minutes. A historical perspective makes me think that empires -
Roman, British, Russian, American, whatever - produce
a larger proportion of assholes than subject nations (and are more
likely to have them in positions of authority).
Owen
| 0 |
Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
Bill Stoddard wrote:
>>GAB> The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
>>GAB> nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
>>GAB> political rallies that you don't agree with has become
>>GAB> common practice. The courts have constantly ruled
>>GAB> that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
>>GAB> They teach you that your very first year of law school.
>>
>>I'll agree with Owen on this one. Muddied my ass. How hard is it to
>>chose between a Republocrat or a Demipublican? Not very. Shouting
>>down has grown to become the answer because the government, over a
>>span of years, and with the help of the Courts -has- limited the
>>rights we have as citizens under the First Amendment.
>>
>>
>
>Wishful thinking. People are just bigger dickheads now. Culture is changing
>and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down
>when you disagree with them. The people that do this are NOT
>disenfranchised. They
>get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes. The act of protesting is
>more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these
>people.
>
>
In my experience, this is classic "American" behaviour, and I don't
think its on the increase outside of the US of A.
I am willing to accept the premise that Americans are bigger dickheads
then they used to be.
Owen
| 0 |
Re: Re[2]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
----- Original Message -----
From: <bitbitch@magnesium.net>
> People are screaming and shouting over the political figures because
> they cannot be heard in any other way.
What, are they illiterate? Mute? What's their problem? If somebody stops
them from posting web pages, or printing newsletters, or talking on the
phone, or organizing their /own/ conference then that would be wrong.
I don't think free speech is a license to speak directly at and be in the
physical presence of any particular individual of your choosing - especially
when that individual is busy doing something else and isn't interested.
| 0 |
Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
On Mon, 2002-09-30 at 09:20, Owen Byrne wrote:
> In my experience, this is classic "American" behaviour, and I don't
> think its on the increase outside of the US of A.
In my experience, this protest behavior is really only an issue in
"ultra-liberal" coastal cities, which is where I normally live. It is
part of the culture and that behavior is viewed as acceptable.
For comparison, contrast this with the character of the arguably more
serious protests against Federal government abuse in the inter-mountain
West. They have a very different idea of what constitutes acceptable
protest practice. Those protests remain largely civil and polite, if
heated and aggressive, and those involve a far greater percentage of the
local population. And unlike 99% of the liberal coastal city protests
I've seen, the people protesting in the inter-mountain West are actually
facing immediate dire consequences from the activities they are
protesting and are strongly motivated to protest in a manner that gets
results. Some of their tactics, such as the practice of many businesses
and restaurants in northern Nevada to not give service to anyone known
to be in the employ of the BLM and related agencies, have been very
effective at forcing dialog. I don't recall anyone characterizing their
protests as impolite, rude, or violent, but then they have more to lose.
-James Rogers
jamesr@best.com
| 0 |
Re[4]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
Hello Mr.,
Monday, September 30, 2002, 1:19:12 PM, you wrote:
MF> ----- Original Message -----
MF> From: <bitbitch@magnesium.net>
>> People are screaming and shouting over the political figures because
>> they cannot be heard in any other way.
MF> What, are they illiterate? Mute? What's their problem? If somebody stops
MF> them from posting web pages, or printing newsletters, or talking on the
MF> phone, or organizing their /own/ conference then that would be wrong.
Perhaps /cannot be heard in any other way (period)/ was incorrect.
What I meant, was a time-specific occurence. Sure, there are other
means outside of the circumstance of the occurence. BUt until we're
willing to eliminate the ability to speak in public -only- for the
side that doesn't agree with the political force, and make that part
of the 1st amendment, the parties -are- screaming and shouting over
political figures because they cannot be heard (to those figures) in
any other way.
MF> I don't think free speech is a license to speak directly at and be in the
MF> physical presence of any particular individual of your choosing - especially
MF> when that individual is busy doing something else and isn't interested.
Sure. And that goes back to my second argument -- Cohen. THey can
walk away. NObody compells them to stand there, I'll agree fully.
But we still have a Constitutional right to speak out against
policies, actions and grievances.
Again. If you want it another way, lets change the Constitution.
--
Best regards,
bitbitch mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net
| 0 |
Re: Re[4]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
----- Original Message -----
From: <bitbitch@magnesium.net>
> the parties -are- screaming and shouting over
> political figures because they cannot be heard (to those figures) in
> any other way.
The right to speak is not the same as the right to be heard by the audience
of the speakers choice.
Disruptive protests might be a means to create awareness - but that's a
pretty lame way to do it. If it truly is the only way, then I'm all for it,
but disruption for the sake of showing how committed the protesters are is
pretty weak.
| 0 |
Re: EBusiness Webforms: cluetrain has left the station
> > ... webforms /can/
> > accept "U.S. of A" as a country. Incredible, but true. Web forms can
> > also accept /multiple/ or even /free-form/ telephone numbers ...
Are the people who use procrustean web
forms practices the same ones who don't
accept faxes?
When I *really* need to get something
done, instead of just idle surfing, I
call or fax. Faxing, like a web form,
can be done 24x7; it allows me to give
all the (and only the) pertinent info
in a single place; it also provides a
self-journalled correspondence, which
means rollback is easy and replay is
even easier.
-Dave
> Sure, tiled windows were the best we had for
> a brief period of time, but they are completely useless
> except for some terminal based replacement applications.
I've been running a tiled (but somewhat
overlapped, yielding a horizontal stack)
window manager lately. Like filling in
a web form, finding edges and shuffling
windows may seem productive, but I find
that having a window manager manage the
windows means I can concentrate on what
I want to do with their contents.
:::::::::
"dumb question: X client behind a firewall?"
> Back in my day, they didn't have ssh. Then again, back in my day,
> they didn't have firewalls.
Back in my day, when one changed computer
installations, email would be forwarded
as a courtesy.
Now, we seem to have swung so far in the
opposite direction that it makes sense to
ditch addresses every couple of years to
shed spam.
| 0 |
Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
> From: Owen Byrne <owen@permafrost.net>
> A flippant remark that I will probably regret -
> sure there's assholes everywhere. I just remember a lunch in Spain with
> a semi-famous American - I think we had about 10 nationalities at the
> table, and he managed to insult each of them within
> 15 minutes. A historical perspective makes me think that empires -
> Roman, British, Russian, American, whatever - produce
> a larger proportion of assholes than subject nations (and are more
> likely to have them in positions of authority).
Yep, those that win battles collect tthe spoils. Lead and breed. Want it to be
different? Lead, don't whine.
| 0 |
Re: Internet Archive bookmobile
On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Tom wrote:
> If the set passes around enough then more people have these works. the
> more folks that have them now, while they are still legal to have, the
> likely they will be left behind in the possible/probabale copyright
> chillout..and if that doesnt happen then more folks than not will still
We will be getting BlackNet-like guerilla P2P pretty soon. Packaging it
into wormcode with an initial userbase of a few 100 k to Mnodes gives you
pretty bulletproof plausible deniability.
> have it for uses all manner of shades.
| 0 |
RE: Re[4]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
> MF> I don't think free speech is a license to speak directly at
> and be in the
> MF> physical presence of any particular individual of your
> choosing - especially
> MF> when that individual is busy doing something else and isn't
> interested.
Yep. I agree 100%
>
> Sure. And that goes back to my second argument -- Cohen. THey can
> walk away. NObody compells them to stand there, I'll agree fully.
> But we still have a Constitutional right to speak out against
> policies, actions and grievances.
>
> Again. If you want it another way, lets change the Constitution.
Huh? Are you saying that whoever has the loudest voice gets to be heard?
Shouting down a public speaker could be considered a form of censorship. If
shouting down public speakers is 'protected' it is only a matter of time
before the people doing the shouting have their tactic used against
them -every single time they open their mouth-. The tactic is stupid and
non-productive and if generally used, will only result in chaos. The tactic
is just stupid ego-bation at best, unless the goal is to generate chaos.
And humans whose goals and actions in life are to create chaos in society
should be locked up (provided you can accurately identify them, which is not
really possible anyway, but hey, this is my rant :-). IMHO.
Bill
| 0 |
Re[6]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
Hello Bill,
Monday, September 30, 2002, 5:46:11 PM, you wrote:
>> MF> I don't think free speech is a license to speak directly at
>> and be in the
>> MF> physical presence of any particular individual of your
>> choosing - especially
>> MF> when that individual is busy doing something else and isn't
>> interested.
BS> Yep. I agree 100%
>>
>> Sure. And that goes back to my second argument -- Cohen. THey can
>> walk away. NObody compells them to stand there, I'll agree fully.
>> But we still have a Constitutional right to speak out against
>> policies, actions and grievances.
>>
>> Again. If you want it another way, lets change the Constitution.
BS> Huh? Are you saying that whoever has the loudest voice gets to be heard?
BS> Shouting down a public speaker could be considered a form of censorship. If
BS> shouting down public speakers is 'protected' it is only a matter of time
BS> before the people doing the shouting have their tactic used against
BS> them -every single time they open their mouth-. The tactic is stupid and
BS> non-productive and if generally used, will only result in chaos. The tactic
BS> is just stupid ego-bation at best, unless the goal is to generate chaos.
BS> And humans whose goals and actions in life are to create chaos in society
BS> should be locked up (provided you can accurately identify them, which is not
BS> really possible anyway, but hey, this is my rant :-). IMHO.
BS> Bill
No offense or anything, but there's a difference between holding a
sign that doesn't agree with Bush and screaming at him.
My sole point, as far as the 1st Amendment goes is that there is more
to this game than just being an angry, liberal youth. (Which is the
gross culmination of everyone's argument sofar) The screaming isn't
the most effective method around. I don't believe I argued that it
was. But screaming is happening because the means to communicate to
the representatives involved are diminishing, at least as far as the
people doing the screaming are concerned. For the record, I don't
support the screamers in organized conferences (Such as the Colin
Powell shout-down that was mentioned earlier). I don't think that
this is what the 1st Amendment was implying. These folks -do- have a
right to be heard, and I think they have a right to be heard by the
folks they elected in the first place.
My point, (my only point) was really more concerned with the cases
such as Mr. Nell. He wasn't engaged (at least from the limited facts
we have) in a shoutout, but rather in a difference of opinion. He
has a right to possess this opinion and make it known to the
representatives that are elected. A sign is not a shout-out.
I think I may have missed (or not accurately addressed) the original
thread switch that took this example and mixed in the screaming
dissenters to the mix. I was mostly responding with my miffedness in
having broad-brush strokes applied to a group without examining the
policy reasons that might have contributed to it. IN this case, the
screaming parties are fed up with getting corralled miles away from
the folks they need to speak with. They're resorting to creative,
offensive and constitutionally challengable means, but its not simply
due to the fact that they're 20 and have lost all decorum. The 'My
generation never did this ' is all BS. THere's more to this story,
we just dont' know it all.
I hope this clarifies my position. For the quick rehash:
Screaming != Free speech on all cases.
Dissent = Free speech, provided you follow what has been laid down by
the Supremes.
K?
--
Best regards,
bitbitch mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net
| 0 |
Re: EBusiness Webforms: cluetrain has left the station
On Saturday 28 September 2002 04:37 pm, you struggled free to say:
&> > Although it's like a total shock to 99.999% (5nines) of all the
&> > employed website designers out there, the truth is webforms /can/
&> > accept "U.S. of A" as a country. Incredible, but true. Web forms can
&> > also accept /multiple/ or even /free-form/ telephone numbers and can
&> > even be partitioned into manageable steps. All this can also be done
&> > without selling exclusive rights to your wallet to the World's
&> > Second-Richest Corporation (assuming Cisco is still #1) and vendor
&> > locking your business into their "small transaction fee" tithe.
Think of all the people and places that would not get unsolicited mail
if we hadn't invented them. Though perhaps ordering a free Enron mug
as the King of Hell....
I think it's like P3P met whatever commercial /.like forum was rocking
yesterday, and they took all Greg's extra serotonin and lit up and
made a Successful go of personal address palettes you could occupy and
own or rent and even move or sell. So you'd reply to all the whitepaper
sites you wouldn't just call to get the real deal like: 'Okay, let's say
I'm in Factorytown, GuangZhou, and I'm a battery acid supervisor for
a multinational that sometimes buys B1s. e-mail me if you get your story
written up all the way;' or
'Today, I'm a 200lb, 3m tall mophead with pearlecent teeth
and excellent sex-linked features, but who uses Solaris nntp clients. Got it?'
or merely
'I can't read Base64 messages. I use small alphabets and
8-letter words that didn't come from the bible and use calculus, and
I'd thank you to class me as a Catamite.'
&> Yes, but this is what normally happened:
&> Engineer: we can put an input validator/parser on the backend to do that.
&> .....
&> Creative Director: I don't give a shit. As long as it's in blue. And
&> has a link to my press release.
N3kk1D PRR3zzEw33Lz ahR 3V1L, but I thought it had to do with
coldfusion-compatiblie plugins (servlets, whatever) that overhyped
unimplemented features. Repeatedly. Openly. In rakish 10MB
branding-first downloads that meshed well with budgeting policies.
| 0 |
Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment & Angry Liberal Yutes
Gregory Alan Bolcer:
>I'm not sure since I haven't attended civics class
>in quite some time, but the First Amendment doesn't cover protected speech,
>hate speech, or actions. ..
The first two are wrong. The first amendment DOES
protect speech the Supreme Court decides it protects
(duh!), and that happens to include most of what
people consider hate speech. Unlike many other
nations, the US has no laws against hate speech, per
se. And the first amendment is the reason for that.
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
| 0 |
Dinosaurs Eggs and the Origins of Good and Evil
One of the most bizarre pages I've seen on the Web. At first I thought it
might be some sort of back-story to a RPG, but, nope, it looks like somebody
believes this.
===
http://www.viking-z.org/r20i.htm
M09. Dinosaurs Eggs and the Origins of Good and Evil.
DINOSAURS. Reptoid ETs are reported to be 12 foot high crocodiles walking on
their hind legs. This is a description of a dinosaur. It now appears in
Remote Viewing that the Reptoid ETs, dinosaurs and dragons are all linked
together and that they all originated on Earth. The Erideans who are Reptoid
derivatives have a home planet (in the Eridanus system) like all other ETs.
The Reptoids have no reported home planet. They also come over as entities
with little brain who control their bodies directly by spirit. This is a
description of a ghost or disincarnate entity regardless of how people see
them. Thus it could be that the Reptoids, Erideans, Nordics, Anunnaki, but
not the Greys, all have origins on Earth and have a strong link to Earth
even if they choose to live elsewhere. The Greys do not appear to have a
renal or urinary system and this points to them not originating on Earth.
The definitive work on dragons is "The Flight of Dragons" by Peter
Dickinson. If dragons did exist in the flesh, they did not survive the long
bow. Targets do not come much bigger.
Truth is stranger than fiction. Thus the writer's current scenario is that
there were a race of dinosaurs which developed psychic intelligence to guard
their eggs and young, and who probably preferred to live underground. They
survived the wipe out of the dinosaurs 50 million years ago with difficulty.
They evolved into the Erideans and transferred to a more hospitable planet
(for them) possibly with the help of another race of ETs who wanted slaves
but otherwise had no interest in Earth or mind control.
Thus it appears that the current Reptoids are the Spirits or ghosts of the
dinosaurs. They must have been powerful to survive 50 million years and also
to appear to some people. They have appeared to the writer in remote
viewing. They are living on as vampire entities. Such immortal minds are
contagious and can easily jump race and species barriers. If they can be
encouraged to reincarnate, then the power sources of the black magicians and
mind controllers will disappear. Encouraging them to reincarnate will help
so called immortal minds to disappear as immortal minds have great
difficulty surviving reincarnation. Purging people's dinosaurs should remove
all perverse psychic abilities not under their control. They are a source of
Satanic Guardian Angels and demons. They control us by owning our psi. Thus
if we regain ownership of psi, we must relinquish their control and that of
all other mind controllers. Encourage people to regain ownership of their
psi.
THE ORIGINS OF LOVE, HATE AND PURE MALICE. The following scenario appears to
hold water and can account for the origins of our Universal Subconscious.
Dinosaurs laid their eggs and buried them either underground or in piles of
rotting vegetation (a good source of beetles and grubs for young
hatchelings). They did not sit on their eggs to keep them warm, which made
them very vulnerable to drastic climate and temperature change. In order to
keep away predators some at least developed psychic mind control. To do this
they had to capture ownership of the psi of potential predators. This is an
act of hatred and outward looking. While a few dinosaurs did develop the
ability to bear living young, most did not. The dinosaurs got in first and
so their mind control tends to override all other latter minds. They have
become the source of all Satans, devils and demons.
Birds on the other hand developed the ability to sit on their eggs and keep
them warm. A hen bird normally lays a series of eggs (say one per day) and
only starts sitting when the clutch is completely laid. Thus all eggs tend
to hatch together as they all have an equal period of warmth. This is
primarily an act of love but inward looking. Bearing live young is not
suitable to a bird of the air. A pregnant pigeon would not fly very far.
Antarctic penguins tuck a single egg between their legs to keep it warm,
even if they are standing on ice.
Mammals developed live bearing of their young which is also primarily an act
of love and inward looking. This is especially true as a mammalian female
can not desert her young in the womb in case of emergency as can a bird
sitting on a nest.
Dinosaurs developed hate and mind control of others to protect their young,
while birds and mammals developed love. Birds and mammals certainly do hate
all enemies of their young, but this is secondary.
If one wants to purge the sources of malice of say a black magician, then
purge his dinosaurs and his dinosaur eggs. Unfortunately most of our
religions are based on dinosaur protection of eggs and thus mind control,
regardless of the front they put out to the public. Religion tends to
concentrate on "How to Brainwash your Neighbour". Conscious thought has
built many mighty empires, theologies and slave control systems out of using
"How to care for and protect one's young" as a foundation.
Thus the foulest form of abuse possible is to call something "A load of
dinosaur's eggs". Purging the dinosaurs and dinosaur's eggs of any entity
tends to purge all malice back to its roots.
It looks as if mighty immortal minds have built up from small beginnings,
aided and abetted by various occultists and other. As they will insist on
vampiring the living for energy to avoid reincarnation and disturbing the
serenity of the writer, he encourages them to reincarnate.
ITEMS FOR INSPECTION. For mind control to take place, then someone must take
control or ownership of the target's psi and pleasure centres. Check for the
following.
Nest of dinosaur's eggs, holy dinosaurs, etc.
Eggs, controllers or owners in peoples psi, pleasure centres, pain killing
hormones, abilities, etc.
Mind machines.
The original engraving or engram.
GOD and SATAN appear to be job titles and not entities in their own right. T
hey appear to be dinosaur engravings or engrams. No doubt dinosaurs were the
first job holders.
TIMETRACKS are worth investigating as our complete history from the start of
time.
My, our, Man's timetracks, etc.
The time tracks of the Universe, Universal Subconscious, Galactic
Subconscious, etc.
EXTINCT RACES of ETs can cause problems when they live on in vampire mode.
Their virtues may known to channelers but they can also have vices. Whenever
one hears of races which have evolved on to higher planes, suspect that the
higher plane is a vampire one. One may never know what they looked like or
other basic characteristics, which makes linking back a trifle difficult.
Every extinct race, etc.
BLOOD ANCESTORS are also worth investigating as minds can be passed down via
genetic linkages. Some of these can be over 2,000 years old.
Every blood ancestor, ancestral mind, genetic mind, etc.
| 0 |
Am I This Or Not?
Wow, talk about a pheenomeenon
==
http://www.iamcal.com/software/ami/
AmIThisOrNot Dynamic Peer Rating System
What is It?
It's a tool to help you build your own "Am I X Or Not" sites.
Where Can I Get It?
Basic Version $20
The basic version lets you build a specific "Am I X" site (example). The
license covers a single installation on a single site.
Advanced Version $40
The advanced version lets your users create their own "Am I X" sites
(example). The license covers a single installation on a single site.
Installation $20
Either version of the system can be installed on your web server, given FTP
access and MySQL login details.
| 0 |
Internet Archive bookmobile
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2002/09/26/bono
act.DTL
Opening arguments are set to begin early next month in Eldred vs. Ashcroft,
a landmark U.S. Supreme Court case that will decide the future of copyright
law, including how and when artists and writers can build upon the work of
others.
....
To heighten public awareness of the importance of the case an Internet
bookmobile is set to depart San Francisco next Monday on a trip that will
bring it to the steps of the Supreme Court building in Washington, D.C.,
before arguments wrap up. The van, which will be stopping at schools,
libraries and senior centers along the way, is equipped to provide free
high-speed access to thousands of literary and artistic works that are
already in the public domain.
--------
I had the opportunity to visit the Internet Archive about a month ago, and
saw the bookmobile under construction. It's a neat idea. Take an SUV, put a
small satellite dish on the top, and put a computer, printer, and binding
machine in the back. Voila -- people can search for a book, then print out a
copy right there on the spot. Quite literally on-demand printing. Total
fixed cost of the computer/printer/binding machine, if bought new (the IA
had the equipment donated) is under $10k.
One of the goals is to show libraries across the country that they could, if
they wished, add these "virtual holdings" (public domain materials) to their
existing library, at a fixed cost most libraries can afford. This should be
compelling to small libraries in remote areas.
- Jim
| 0 |
If you like graphic novels/comics
http://www.thecliffguy.com/cliffs.htm
Numerous artists drawing characters on a cliff.
| 0 |
Re: Dinosaurs Eggs and the Origins of Good and Evil
Neat stuff. Seems to combine elements of Scientology/Xenu and
David Icke (http://www.davidicke.com/icke/temp/reptconn.html).
- Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mr. FoRK" <fork_list@hotmail.com>
To: <fork@spamassassin.taint.org>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:11 PM
Subject: Dinosaurs Eggs and the Origins of Good and Evil
> One of the most bizarre pages I've seen on the Web. At first I thought it
> might be some sort of back-story to a RPG, but, nope, it looks like somebody
> believes this.
>
> ===
> http://www.viking-z.org/r20i.htm
>
> M09. Dinosaurs Eggs and the Origins of Good and Evil.
> DINOSAURS. Reptoid ETs are reported to be 12 foot high crocodiles walking on
> their hind legs. This is a description of a dinosaur. It now appears in
> Remote Viewing that the Reptoid ETs, dinosaurs and dragons are all linked
> together and that they all originated on Earth. The Erideans who are Reptoid
> derivatives have a home planet (in the Eridanus system) like all other ETs.
> The Reptoids have no reported home planet. They also come over as entities
> with little brain who control their bodies directly by spirit. This is a
> description of a ghost or disincarnate entity regardless of how people see
> them. Thus it could be that the Reptoids, Erideans, Nordics, Anunnaki, but
> not the Greys, all have origins on Earth and have a strong link to Earth
> even if they choose to live elsewhere. The Greys do not appear to have a
> renal or urinary system and this points to them not originating on Earth.
> The definitive work on dragons is "The Flight of Dragons" by Peter
> Dickinson. If dragons did exist in the flesh, they did not survive the long
> bow. Targets do not come much bigger.
>
> Truth is stranger than fiction. Thus the writer's current scenario is that
> there were a race of dinosaurs which developed psychic intelligence to guard
> their eggs and young, and who probably preferred to live underground. They
> survived the wipe out of the dinosaurs 50 million years ago with difficulty.
> They evolved into the Erideans and transferred to a more hospitable planet
> (for them) possibly with the help of another race of ETs who wanted slaves
> but otherwise had no interest in Earth or mind control.
>
> Thus it appears that the current Reptoids are the Spirits or ghosts of the
> dinosaurs. They must have been powerful to survive 50 million years and also
> to appear to some people. They have appeared to the writer in remote
> viewing. They are living on as vampire entities. Such immortal minds are
> contagious and can easily jump race and species barriers. If they can be
> encouraged to reincarnate, then the power sources of the black magicians and
> mind controllers will disappear. Encouraging them to reincarnate will help
> so called immortal minds to disappear as immortal minds have great
> difficulty surviving reincarnation. Purging people's dinosaurs should remove
> all perverse psychic abilities not under their control. They are a source of
> Satanic Guardian Angels and demons. They control us by owning our psi. Thus
> if we regain ownership of psi, we must relinquish their control and that of
> all other mind controllers. Encourage people to regain ownership of their
> psi.
>
> THE ORIGINS OF LOVE, HATE AND PURE MALICE. The following scenario appears to
> hold water and can account for the origins of our Universal Subconscious.
>
> Dinosaurs laid their eggs and buried them either underground or in piles of
> rotting vegetation (a good source of beetles and grubs for young
> hatchelings). They did not sit on their eggs to keep them warm, which made
> them very vulnerable to drastic climate and temperature change. In order to
> keep away predators some at least developed psychic mind control. To do this
> they had to capture ownership of the psi of potential predators. This is an
> act of hatred and outward looking. While a few dinosaurs did develop the
> ability to bear living young, most did not. The dinosaurs got in first and
> so their mind control tends to override all other latter minds. They have
> become the source of all Satans, devils and demons.
>
> Birds on the other hand developed the ability to sit on their eggs and keep
> them warm. A hen bird normally lays a series of eggs (say one per day) and
> only starts sitting when the clutch is completely laid. Thus all eggs tend
> to hatch together as they all have an equal period of warmth. This is
> primarily an act of love but inward looking. Bearing live young is not
> suitable to a bird of the air. A pregnant pigeon would not fly very far.
> Antarctic penguins tuck a single egg between their legs to keep it warm,
> even if they are standing on ice.
>
> Mammals developed live bearing of their young which is also primarily an act
> of love and inward looking. This is especially true as a mammalian female
> can not desert her young in the womb in case of emergency as can a bird
> sitting on a nest.
>
> Dinosaurs developed hate and mind control of others to protect their young,
> while birds and mammals developed love. Birds and mammals certainly do hate
> all enemies of their young, but this is secondary.
>
> If one wants to purge the sources of malice of say a black magician, then
> purge his dinosaurs and his dinosaur eggs. Unfortunately most of our
> religions are based on dinosaur protection of eggs and thus mind control,
> regardless of the front they put out to the public. Religion tends to
> concentrate on "How to Brainwash your Neighbour". Conscious thought has
> built many mighty empires, theologies and slave control systems out of using
> "How to care for and protect one's young" as a foundation.
>
> Thus the foulest form of abuse possible is to call something "A load of
> dinosaur's eggs". Purging the dinosaurs and dinosaur's eggs of any entity
> tends to purge all malice back to its roots.
>
> It looks as if mighty immortal minds have built up from small beginnings,
> aided and abetted by various occultists and other. As they will insist on
> vampiring the living for energy to avoid reincarnation and disturbing the
> serenity of the writer, he encourages them to reincarnate.
>
> ITEMS FOR INSPECTION. For mind control to take place, then someone must take
> control or ownership of the target's psi and pleasure centres. Check for the
> following.
>
> Nest of dinosaur's eggs, holy dinosaurs, etc.
> Eggs, controllers or owners in peoples psi, pleasure centres, pain killing
> hormones, abilities, etc.
> Mind machines.
> The original engraving or engram.
> GOD and SATAN appear to be job titles and not entities in their own right. T
> hey appear to be dinosaur engravings or engrams. No doubt dinosaurs were the
> first job holders.
> TIMETRACKS are worth investigating as our complete history from the start of
> time.
>
> My, our, Man's timetracks, etc.
> The time tracks of the Universe, Universal Subconscious, Galactic
> Subconscious, etc.
> EXTINCT RACES of ETs can cause problems when they live on in vampire mode.
> Their virtues may known to channelers but they can also have vices. Whenever
> one hears of races which have evolved on to higher planes, suspect that the
> higher plane is a vampire one. One may never know what they looked like or
> other basic characteristics, which makes linking back a trifle difficult.
> Every extinct race, etc.
> BLOOD ANCESTORS are also worth investigating as minds can be passed down via
> genetic linkages. Some of these can be over 2,000 years old.
> Every blood ancestor, ancestral mind, genetic mind, etc.
>
| 0 |
Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment & Angry Liberal Yutes
Russell Turpin wrote:
>
> Gregory Alan Bolcer:
> >I'm not sure since I haven't attended civics class
> >in quite some time, but the First Amendment doesn't cover protected speech,
> >hate speech, or actions. ..
>
> The first two are wrong. The first amendment DOES
> protect speech the Supreme Court decides it protects
> (duh!), and that happens to include most of what
> people consider hate speech. Unlike many other
> nations, the US has no laws against hate speech, per
> se. And the first amendment is the reason for that.
>
This was poking fun of the practice of making
up differnt types of speech with different
types of protected status. I think the
laws specialing out hate and protected speech
are ridiculous. The point I keep trying to make
is that there's only two types, speech and action.
I agree, they are all speech and should be
covered by the First Amendment, but
If hate speech is so protected, why are certain
states trying to prosecute people for it? There's
only two answers and one of them is wrong.
1) Because hate speech is different and needs to
have a different level of protection dictated
by whoever's offended at the time.
2) It's because it's not just speech, but action.
A action who's consequences are foreseeable by
any reasonable person.
Hate speech is mislabeled. It's really "threat". I think
they let the mislabeling perpetuate as there's advantage
in being able to counter-threat with loss of liberty and
money through civil and criminal lawsuits for people THEY
don't like.
Greg
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
| 0 |
Re: MIT OpenCourseWare
At 05:38 PM 9/30/2002 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>Looks useful. Hopefully, they'll put up some more material soon.
>
> http://ocw.mit.edu/global/all-courses.html
I'll be sure to keep everyone posted on the next update. :)
--
B.K. DeLong
bkdelong@ceci.mit.edu
OpenCourseWare
+1.617.258.0360
+1.617.877.3271 (cell)
| 0 |
RE: MIT OpenCourseWare
Better late than never -- I received a grant from Project Athena, MIT's original courseware effort, and found at the end that they hadn't thought much about distribution of the courseware. Instead, they had gotten wrapped up with X and various Unix tools, and other useful, but not strictly educational efforts.
Ken
> -----Original Message-----
> From: B.K. DeLong [mailto:bkdelong@pobox.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 9:06 AM
> To: Eugen Leitl; forkit!
> Subject: Re: MIT OpenCourseWare
>
>
> At 05:38 PM 9/30/2002 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>
>
> >Looks useful. Hopefully, they'll put up some more material soon.
> >
> > http://ocw.mit.edu/global/all-courses.html
>
> I'll be sure to keep everyone posted on the next update. :)
>
>
> --
> B.K. DeLong
> bkdelong@ceci.mit.edu
> OpenCourseWare
>
> +1.617.258.0360
> +1.617.877.3271 (cell)
>
>
| 0 |
Re: The Wrong Business
On Tuesday 01 October 2002 01:27 am, Mr. FoRK wrote:
> http://www.rathergood.com/vikings/
Some classics from this period, now in a new English translation:
"The Sagas of Icelanders" in trade paperback, from (duh) Viking, in 2000.
Remaindered at my local Barnes & Ignoble. The historical reference
material is useful.
Eirikur
| 0 |
Re: So I missed this one...
bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
> Turns out the music industry settled ... quite a hefty
> settlement.
Funnky, I thought that it was minor in comparison the the gouging that
occurs on a standard CD.
> The Wall Street Journal
> Copyright (c) 2002, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
> Tuesday, October 1, 2002
>
> Five Music Concerns To Pay $143.1 Million In Price-Fixing Case
> Reuters News Service ...
> The companies, which didn't admit any wrongdoing, will pay $67.4
> million in cash to compensate consumers who overpaid for CDs between
> 1995 and 2000. The companies also agreed to distribute $75.7 million
> worth of CDs to public entities and nonprofit organizations throughout
> the country.
The CDs will probably cost less than 7.5 million to produce and
distribute... "didn't admit any wrongdoing"?!? Give me a break.
Elias
| 0 |
Re[2]: So I missed this one...
Hello Elias,
Tuesday, October 1, 2002, 9:54:02 PM, you wrote:
E> bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
>> Turns out the music industry settled ... quite a hefty
>> settlement.
E> Funnky, I thought that it was minor in comparison the the gouging that
E> occurs on a standard CD.
>> The Wall Street Journal
>> Copyright (c) 2002, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
>> Tuesday, October 1, 2002
>>
>> Five Music Concerns To Pay $143.1 Million In Price-Fixing Case
>> Reuters News Service ...
>> The companies, which didn't admit any wrongdoing, will pay $67.4
>> million in cash to compensate consumers who overpaid for CDs between
>> 1995 and 2000. The companies also agreed to distribute $75.7 million
>> worth of CDs to public entities and nonprofit organizations throughout
>> the country.
E> The CDs will probably cost less than 7.5 million to produce and
E> distribute... "didn't admit any wrongdoing"?!? Give me a break.
E> Elias
Toobad none of this will go back to any of the people who were forced
to pay the rates.
--
Best regards,
bitbitch mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net
| 0 |
Re: The Wrong Business
At 10:27 PM -0700 on 9/30/02, Mr. FoRK wrote:
> I realize now, that after reviewing the past several years of work and
> career, I have been in the wrong business. The wrong business.
>
> This is what I should have been doing.
>
> http://www.rathergood.com/vikings/
A New Manual has been published:
<http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=6T1JTEGKQP&isbn=0140447695>
Or, the one I read...
<http://http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=6T1JTEGKQP&isbn=0140441034>
And, of course, the open source versions...
http://users.ev1.net/~theweb/njaltoc.htm
http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Njal/
--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
| 0 |
Re: Wifi query
I think what you're looking at with the dual antenna mounts is a
diversity antenna. It won't work too well with one hooked up to the
pringles can and the other hooked up to a regular rubber duck.
-Ian.
On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 01:04 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>
> 1) reinforced concrete shields like the dickens; wood lots less so
> 2) line of sight is best (o'really?)
> 3) if you want to boost range, use directional aerials, not omnis
>
> Direct line of sight (no trees, no nothing) can give you ~10 km with
> well
> aligned directional aerials (and, say, no sleet, no locusts, nor rain
> of
> blood). If you want to fan out afterwards, use a bridge of a
> directional
> coupling to an omni. 802.11a should shield within building lots more
> than
> 802.11b, ditto line of sight with lots of precipitation inbetween.
>
> On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Damien Morton wrote:
>
>> I just bought a LinkSys BEFW1154v2 Access Point Router for $150
>> (http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=22&prid=415). Im
>> doing
>> some dev work on a Symbol PocketPC device with built in 802.11b.
>>
>> In this 600 sq ft pre-war New York apartment it goes through 2 or 3
>> walls, into the hallway and halfway down the first flight of stairs
>> before it loses contact with the base station. That's less than 50 ft.
>> Inside the apartment, it works just fine.
>>
>> I just did some further testing - through 2 brick walls the range is
>> about 25 feet. The signal also goes through the roof pretty much
>> unimpeded.
>>
>> That said, the Symbol device doesn't have an antenna to speak of, and
>> I
>> havent done any tweaking to try to extend the range.
>>
>> The Linksys unit has two antenna mounts - you could leave one as an
>> omni
>> antenna while hooking up a directional antenna to the other.
>>
>> You might find that you have to use several access points and/or
>> repeaters to get the coverage you want.
| 0 |
Re: Optical analog computing?
Uh, WWII Enigma was cracked at Bletchly Park, based on the work of some
Poles, who had been trying to figure out when they would be invaded.
Entirely mechanical! Definitely not optical at all. Enigma was
originally broken based on bad use practice. If it had been employed more
sensibly it would have been a lot harder.
See "The Code Book" by Singh, Doubleday, 1999. Or, for that matter,
"Cryptonomicon" by Stephenson, which is a fictionalization of the Enigma
cracking story, and pretty accurate.
I eventually get born as a side-effect of the Battle of Britain, you
see....
Computing with interference patterns, etc, makes perfect sense, but Enigma
was cracked by building mechanical systems that were essentially Enigma
machines and brute-forcing.
Eirikur
| 0 |
RE: Wifi query
That's what the manual said - a diversity antenna.
Why wouldn't it work well with one omni and one directional antena?
IANAEE, but doesn't that count as diversity?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Andrew Bell [mailto:fork@ianbell.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2002 23:23
> To: Eugen Leitl
> Cc: Damien Morton; tomwhore@slack.net; fork@spamassassin.taint.org
> Subject: Re: Wifi query
>
>
>
> I think what you're looking at with the dual antenna mounts is a
> diversity antenna. It won't work too well with one hooked up to the
> pringles can and the other hooked up to a regular rubber duck.
>
> -Ian.
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 01:04 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>
> >
> > 1) reinforced concrete shields like the dickens; wood lots less so
> > 2) line of sight is best (o'really?)
> > 3) if you want to boost range, use directional aerials, not omnis
> >
> > Direct line of sight (no trees, no nothing) can give you ~10 km with
> > well
> > aligned directional aerials (and, say, no sleet, no
> locusts, nor rain
> > of
> > blood). If you want to fan out afterwards, use a bridge of a
> > directional
> > coupling to an omni. 802.11a should shield within building
> lots more
> > than
> > 802.11b, ditto line of sight with lots of precipitation inbetween.
> >
> > On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Damien Morton wrote:
> >
> >> I just bought a LinkSys BEFW1154v2 Access Point Router for $150
> >> (http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=22&prid=415). Im
> >> doing some dev work on a Symbol PocketPC device with built in
> >> 802.11b.
> >>
> >> In this 600 sq ft pre-war New York apartment it goes
> through 2 or 3
> >> walls, into the hallway and halfway down the first flight
> of stairs
> >> before it loses contact with the base station. That's less than 50
> >> ft. Inside the apartment, it works just fine.
> >>
> >> I just did some further testing - through 2 brick walls
> the range is
> >> about 25 feet. The signal also goes through the roof pretty much
> >> unimpeded.
> >>
> >> That said, the Symbol device doesn't have an antenna to
> speak of, and
> >> I
> >> havent done any tweaking to try to extend the range.
> >>
> >> The Linksys unit has two antenna mounts - you could leave one as an
> >> omni
> >> antenna while hooking up a directional antenna to the other.
> >>
> >> You might find that you have to use several access points and/or
> >> repeaters to get the coverage you want.
>
| 0 |
Creative political speech
http://www.quitpalestine.org./
Funny as all hell. So a group of 25 QUIT (Queers Undermining Israeli
Terrorism) marched into the local starbucks in Berkeley (Of course,
they pick a safe city like Berkeley, but hey, still funny) and
'settle' driving away straights and other prior inhabitants with
supersoakers :)
Incredibly creative, in my opinion. Not terribly violent (I mean, how
much damage can you -really- do with a supersoaker?) but definintely
a newscatcher.
Its nice to see folks are finding some creative means to make a point.
Even if you don't -agree- with it, its a hard sell to say that this
has been done before.
<C'mon... I'm just waiting for the uproar from the Conservatives on the
list ... :-)>
--
Best regards,
bitbitch mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net
| 0 |
ActiveBuddy
Kind of interesting application of 'agent' technology.
A mix of telnet and Eliza?
(wonder if KnowNow needs this as a partner...)
==
http://www.activebuddy.com/products/index.shtml
ActiveBuddy, Inc. has developed patented technology for building and
deploying interactive agents. ActiveBuddy's BuddyScript technology powers
business solutions that leverage the functionality, convenience and appeal
of instant messaging to provide an efficient and immediate means of
communication with customers and constituents.
ActiveBuddy technology is proven in the marketplace by the smash success of
SmarterChild, ActiveBuddy's showcase interactive agent launched in June 2001
and visited by over 8 million consumers in its first year of life.
Interactive agents allow your customers and constituents to receive
information and services in a natural, conversational interface.
Software Products
BuddyScriptT Server - an end-to-end software solution for deploying
interactive agents. BuddyScript Server provides every component required to
operate an interactive agent, including connectivity with the messaging
network, message routing, data access, message formatting, user and session
management, and detailed tracking. BuddyScript Server is offered in four
configurations to meet your capacity needs. Its scaleable architecture
supports virtually unlimited usage. More...
===
Here is a sample conversation on (MSN Messenger with 'SmarterChild'):
Mike says:
how are you?
SmarterChild says:
Great thx! You?
Mike says:
Fine. What is the weather like in seattle?
SmarterChild says:
Current weather conditions for Seattle, WA:
Currently: 57 F
Condition: Few Clouds
Real Feel: 57 F
Dewpoint: 44
Humidity: 62 %
Visibility: 10 mi
Wind: N/0 mph
Next time, just type "weather seattle, wa."
To get the forecast for Seattle, WA, just type "forecast."
| 0 |
Re: ActiveBuddy
MF> Here is a sample conversation on (MSN Messenger with 'SmarterChild'):
MF> Mike says:
MF> how are you?
MF> SmarterChild says:
MF> Great thx! You?
Oh freaking great. In their adoption to make it 'more human' they
have to add in all the broken english and shortened AOL-style
phrasings. YAY.
Next thing you know, the AI will be asking for ASL...
Evil.
| 0 |
Re: dumb question: X client behind a firewall?
------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C2655A.4ABB3500
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph S. Barrera III
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:06 PM
To: FoRK
Subject: dumb question: X client behind a firewall?
Let's say you're behind a firewall and have a NAT address.
Is there any way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world
and set your DISPLAY in some way that you can create
xterms on your own screen?
- Joe
--------------------
I'm in no way a pro but perhaps you could set your Firewall to accept con=
nections from that Linux box and then somehow set the Linux box to transm=
it on a specific port. Then configure your router to forward all informat=
ion from that port to your box.
But then again, that pretty much defeats the entire point of a firewall =3D=
P.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.ms=
n.com
------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C2655A.4ABB3500
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV> </DIV> <=
DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV =
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B=
> Joseph S. Barrera III</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B=
> Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:06 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Ar=
ial"><B>To:</B> FoRK</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B=
> dumb question: X client behind a firewall?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>L=
et's say you're behind a firewall and have a NAT address.<BR>Is there any=
way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world<BR>and set your DISP=
LAY in some way that you can create<BR>xterms on your own screen?<BR><BR>=
- Joe</P> <P> </P> <P>--------------------</P> <P>I'm in no way a pr=
o but perhaps you could set your Firewall to accept connections from that=
Linux box and then somehow set the Linux box to transmit on a specific p=
ort. Then configure your router to forward all information from that port=
to your box.</P> <P> </P> <P>But then again, that pretty much defea=
ts the entire point of a firewall =3DP.</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML><br=
clear=3Dall><hr>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <a =
href=3D'http://explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>
------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C2655A.4ABB3500--
| 0 |
Polit-spam
This is something new, or at least new to me:
Politspam (n): Using a spam engine for political purposes.
In this particular case, to get back at the University of Groningen.
The content suggests its more prank than vigilante activism (in the
old days we used to say "someone left their terminal unguarded")
but what's interesting is that it's not trying to sell me anything
or lead me to any for-fee service, it's just trying to spread
a meme that RUG is evil.
>>>>> "w" == wpin <lslifriend> writes:
w> Those who want to leave for the Netherlands to carry on any
w> kind of education,including for PHD, must be careful
w> . Especially the university of Groningen(RUG) should be
w> avoided. This university was once a good one but now it has
w> lost its reputation. ... Studying is a good investment in time
w> and money. So invest in the right place and time. You are
w> warned.
w> Sincerely yours,
w> hyohxsycjlakdbmhjpiouupngoqrm
Has anyone else started to receive either consumer vigilante or
political activism messages via spam methods?
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
- blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)
| 0 |
Re: ActiveBuddy
How is this any different from attaching an Infobot or A.L.I.C.E
through licq's console-hook? People have been doing that for years,
and for over a decade in IRC and the MUDs.
... and the one thing I think we've learned in all that time is that,
as a help-desk, it doesn't work. People just don't like talking to
robots, especially when the robots, once confused, become imbeciles.
I think the humans may feel cheated, deceived and tricked when they
discover, as with the Seattle answer, that they are talking to a
machine; there's no real intelligence behind that simulated-friendly
and therefore empty 'thx'.
AIML is clever and cute, but for /practical/ applications as a first
line of technical support? It's been tried over and over, and while I
/also/ think that it /should/ work, for the most part, people won't
use it. What's worse, as we make the NL processing more and more
clever, it only means it fails more dramatically; ALICE doesn't just
stumble a bit, it starts to drool. And ALICE is the best we have.
Like a Dalek: All very impressive when things are going well, but all
it takes to betray the chicken-brain inside is a towel over it's
ill-placed eye, or a spin off the metal surface ;)
In all the prolog-based NL database query systems of the 1980's and
other later chatterbot helpdesk projects like Shallow Red, even
simpler tries like Ask Jeeves, people very quickly know they're
talking to a robot, and the queries anneal to short, truncated and
terse database-like verb-noun or just noun-keyword requests.
People are just too quick to adapt, and too impatient to forgive a
clunky interface, and for now, especially when the /average/ computer
user still can't type more than maybe 5-10wpm, NL is a painfully slow
clunky interface.
Put it this way: Would you login, wake the bot and ask for the Seattle
weather, or would you do as we /all/ do and just click the weather
icon sitting there on your desktop?
Just for fun, here's an interesting conversation between Shallow Red,
ALICE and Eliza as they decide to play the Turing Game:
http://www.botspot.com/best/12-09-97.htm
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
- blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)
| 0 |
Re: ActiveBuddy
Wow, if they put a VRML front end on it it would be 100% worthless rather
than just 99%
IRC...Bots....scripts.....been there done that and much better.
If these folks actualy saw the xddc instafilesharing scripts must 12 year
olds hang off of Mirc they might get a clue, then again they might
already have teh clue that sometimes you can packege the obvious and sell
it to the clueless.
| 0 |
Re: Polit-spam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Lawrence Murphy" <garym@canada.com>
>
> >>>>> "w" == wpin <lslifriend> writes:
>
> w> Those who want to leave for the Netherlands to carry on any
> w> kind of education,including for PHD, must be careful
> w> . Especially the university of Groningen(RUG) should be
> w> avoided. This university was once a good one but now it has
> w> lost its reputation. ... Studying is a good investment in time
> w> and money. So invest in the right place and time. You are
> w> warned.
Dear gawd - 'lost its reputation' - how horrible for those Northern
Europeans. What could possibly be worse than that?
| 0 |
Re: ActiveBuddy
let me put it /another/ way ...
f> Mike says: how are you?
f> SmarterChild says: Great thx! You?
f> Mike says: Fine. What is the weather like in seattle?
f> SmarterChild says: Current weather conditions for Seattle, WA:
Out of 8 /million/ alledged visitors, this is the /best/ example???
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
- blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)
| 0 |
Re: Optical analog computing?
--- begin forwarded text
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 01:30:24 -0400
From: "John S. Denker" <jsd@monmouth.com>
Subject: Re: Optical analog computing?
Sender: jsd@no.domain.spam
To: "R. A. Hettinga" <rah@shipwright.com>
Cc: Digital Bearer Settlement List <dbs@philodox.com>,
cryptography@wasabisystems.com
"R. A. Hettinga" wrote:
...
> "the first computer to crack enigma was optical"
> "the first synthetic-aperture-radar processor was optical"
> "but all these early successes were classified -- 100 to 200 projects,
> and I probably know of less than half."
>
> --> Do these claims compute?! is this really a secret history, or does
> this mean holography, of am I just completely out of the loop?1
Gimme a break. This is remarkable for its lack of
newsworthiness.
1) Bletchley Park used optical sensors, which were (and
still are) the best way to read paper tape at high speed.
You can read about it in the standard accounts, e.g.
http://www.picotech.com/applications/colossus.html
2) For decades before that, codebreakers were using optical
computing in the form of superposed masks to find patterns.
You can read about it in Kahn.
3) People have been doing opto-electronic computing for
decades. There's a lot more to it than just holography.
I get 14,000 hits from
http://www.google.com/search?q=optical-computing
> Optical info is a complex-valued wave (spatial frequency, amplitude and
> phase)
It isn't right to make it sound like three numbers (frequency,
amplitude, and phase); actually there are innumerable
frequencies, each of which has its own amplitude and phase.
> lenses, refractions, and interference are the computational operators.
> (add, copy, multiply, fft, correlation, convolution) of 1D and 2D arrays
>
> and, of course, massively parallel by default.
>
> and, of course, allows free-space interconnects.
Some things that are hard with wires are easy with
light-waves. But most things that are easy with wires
are hard with light-waves.
> Here's a commercialized effort from israel: a "space integrating
> vector-matric multiplier" [ A ] B = [ C ]
> laser-> 512-gate modulator -> spread over 2D
> "256 Teraflop equivalent" for one multiply per nanosecond.
People were doing smaller versions of that in
the 1980s.
> Unclassified example: acousto-optic spectrometer, 500 Gflops equivalent
> (for 12 watts!) doing continuous FFTs. Launched in 1998 on a 2-year
> mission. Submillimeter wave observatory.
Not "FFTs". FTs. Fourier Transforms. All you need for
taking a D=2 Fourier Transform is a lens. It's undergrad
physics-lab stuff. I get 6,000 hits from:
http://www.google.com/search?q=fourier-optics
> Of course, the rest of the talk is about the promise of moving from
> optoelectronic to all-optical processors (on all-optical nets & with
> optical encryption, & so on).
All optical??? No optoelectronics anywhere???
That's medicinal-grade pure snake oil, USP.
Photons are well known for not interacting with
each other. It's hard to do computing without
interactions.
--- end forwarded text
--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
| 0 |
Re: ActiveBuddy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Lawrence Murphy" <garym@canada.com>
> ... and the one thing I think we've learned in all that time is that,
> as a help-desk, it doesn't work.
I'm not sure they are doing strictly help-desk stuff.
But the whole 'who in their right mind would use that? it doesn't have all
these cool features!' isn't always a guarantee of failure - maybe there is a
strength in this approach (agents and/or IM as ui) than can find a nich
application space.
>
> In all the prolog-based NL database query systems of the 1980's and
> other later chatterbot helpdesk projects like Shallow Red, even
> simpler tries like Ask Jeeves, people very quickly know they're
> talking to a robot, and the queries anneal to short, truncated and
> terse database-like verb-noun or just noun-keyword requests.
Kind of like a web query - and with google, someone else can turn them into
a link so you don't even have to type anything.
>
> People are just too quick to adapt, and too impatient to forgive a
> clunky interface, and for now, especially when the /average/ computer
> user still can't type more than maybe 5-10wpm, NL is a painfully slow
> clunky interface.
Yes - true true.
>
> Put it this way: Would you login, wake the bot and ask for the Seattle
> weather, or would you do as we /all/ do and just click the weather
> icon sitting there on your desktop?
What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the bot, but
they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
example: two people discussing trips, etc. may trigger a weather bot to
mention what the forecast says - without directly being asked.
| 0 |
Re: Wifi query
802.11b - 11Mbps per channel over three channels in the 2.4GHz range
(also shared with microwaves and cordless phones) at rages up to ~300 ft.
802.11a runs on 12 channels in the 5GHz range and up to around five
times more bandwidth (~54Mbps or so) but has less range (60-100 ft).
8021.11a also adds Forward Error Correction into the scheme to allow for
more reliable data transmission.
Which to use really depends on what you're doing with it. Streaming
video almost necessitates 802.11a, while streaming just audio can be
comfortably done with 802.11b provided that there isn't much
interference or too many clients.
Prices? Don't know... Haven't done the research. For covering a large
area 802.11a will be more expensive due to the need for more APs. If you
want to reach the local coffee shop, however, you will need a
directional antenna either way.
Check out http://www.80211-planet.com, they've got some good articles on
802.11... Also, some of the best info on 802.11 security I've seen can
be found at http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/IEEE/.
Give me bandwidth or give me death,
Elias
Tom wrote:
>... I have one very pressing question.... Wifi ranges.. ...
>
>Do I got for 802.11b stuff or do I gold out for 802.11a ? Is the price
>point break goign to warrant the differnce?
>
| 0 |
Re: Optical analog computing?
--- begin forwarded text
Delivered-To: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
To: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
Subject: Re: Optical analog computing?
From: Dave Long <dl@silcom.com>
Sender: fork-admin@xent.com
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:09:34 -0700
> > "the first computer to crack enigma was optical"
>
> Computing with interference patterns, etc, makes perfect sense, but Enigma
> was cracked by building mechanical systems that were essentially Enigma
> machines and brute-forcing.
Look for "Zygalski sheets".
By Koerner's* narrative, it wound up
being a hybrid affair: Bletchley had
mock Enigmas which cycled through the
Enigma's ~18k starting positions in a
quarter of an hour, but the Germans
started using a plugboard which then
had ~1.5x10^14 possibilities. The
Poles noticed that there were some
patterns in the messages which were
only possible via certain plugboard
settings, and so:
> When we have collected several such cards corresponding to different
> initial signals ..., we place them in a pile so that the squares
> corresponding to the same daily settings are aligned and shine a
> light beneath the pile. Only those squares which let the light
> through will correspond to possible daily settings.
So the brute force hardware allowed
precalculation of "optical" computing
devices which then narrowed down the
possibilities enough for brute force
to again be used for daily decodes,
until:
> On 10 May, the Germans invaded France and, on the same day, in
> accordance with the best cryptographic principles, they changed their
> Enigma procedures in such a way that the 1560 Zygalski sheets, each
> with their carefully drilled 1000 or so holes, became just so much
> waste cardboard.
-Dave
::::::
> > "the first synthetic-aperture-radar processor was optical"
This is also easy to believe, given Dr.
Elachi's description of the 1981 Shuttle
Imaging Radar:
> The received signal is recorded on an optical film which is retrieved
> after landing. The film ... is then processed in an optical correlator
> to generate the final image.
which makes sense, as one wishes to shift
each component of the return in proportion
to its frequency, for which one presumably
needs a glorified prism.
> Alternatively, the ... signal can be digitized and then recorded on
> board or transmitted to the ground via a digital data link. This was
> the case with the ... sensor flown in 1984.
::::::
* Koerner, _The Pleasures of Counting_,
in which various aspects of the Enigma
decoding cover four chapters, of which
I quote from two sections of one:
14.2: Beautiful Polish females, and
14.3: Passing the torch
> Churchill's romantic soul loved the excitement and secrecy surrounding
> Bletchley. He relished the way that
> > [t]he old procedures, like the setting up of agents, the suborning
> > of informants, the sending of messages written in invisible ink,
> > the masquerading, the dressing-up, the secret transmitters, and the
> > examining of the contents of waste-paper baskets, all turned out
> > to be largely cover for this other source, as one might keep some
> > old-established business in rare books going in order to be able,
> > under cover of it, to do a thriving trade in pornography and erotica
> ...
> Looking at the disparate, unkempt and definitely unmilitary crew
> formed by his top code-breakers, he is said to have added to his head
> of Intelligence "I know I told you to leave no stone unturned to find
> the necessary staff, but I did not mean you to take me so literally!"
--- end forwarded text
--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
| 0 |
Re: ActiveBuddy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Lawrence Murphy" <garym@canada.com>
>
> f> What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the
> f> bot, but they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
>
> Do you do that? Do you hear two people at the next table say "I'm
> going to Seattle tomorrow" and you just /have/ to lean over and
> interject compulsively to tell them what you know about Seattle's
> weather?
Have you ever worked with Kragen?
| 0 |
Re: ActiveBuddy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mr. FoRK" <fork_list@hotmail.com>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Lawrence Murphy" <garym@canada.com>
>
> >
> > f> What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the
> > f> bot, but they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
> >
> > Do you do that? Do you hear two people at the next table say "I'm
> > going to Seattle tomorrow" and you just /have/ to lean over and
> > interject compulsively to tell them what you know about Seattle's
> > weather?
>
<joke>Oh, please, quit with all that StopEnergy(tm)</joke>
| 0 |
Re: Optical analog computing?
--- begin forwarded text
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 03:21:05 +1000
To: "John S. Denker" <jsd@monmouth.com>
From: Greg Rose <ggr@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: Optical analog computing?
Cc: "R. A. Hettinga" <rah@shipwright.com>,
Digital Bearer Settlement List <dbs@philodox.com>,
cryptography@wasabisystems.com
At 01:30 AM 10/2/2002 -0400, John S. Denker wrote:
>"R. A. Hettinga" wrote:
>...
> > "the first computer to crack enigma was optical"
>1) Bletchley Park used optical sensors, which were (and
>still are) the best way to read paper tape at high speed.
>You can read about it in the standard accounts, e.g.
> http://www.picotech.com/applications/colossus.html
But Colossus was not for Enigma. The bombes used for Enigma were
electro-mechanical. I'm not aware of any application of optical techniques
to Enigma, unless they were done in the US and are still classified. And
clearly, the first bulk breaks of Enigma were done by the bombes, so I
guess it depends whether you count bombes as computers or not, whether this
statement has any credibility at all.
Greg.
Williams/Zenon 2004 campaign page: http://www.ben4prez.org
Greg Rose INTERNET: ggr@qualcomm.com
Qualcomm Australia VOICE: +61-2-9817 4188 FAX: +61-2-9817 5199
Level 3, 230 Victoria Road, http://people.qualcomm.com/ggr/
Gladesville NSW 2111 232B EC8F 44C6 C853 D68F E107 E6BF CD2F 1081 A37C
--- end forwarded text
--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
| 0 |
Re: Wifi query
Elias Sinderson wrote:
> 802.11b - 11Mbps per channel over three channels in the 2.4GHz range
> (also shared with microwaves and cordless phones)
Microwaves, cordless phones and video-based baby monitors....
Greg
--
Gregory Alan Bolcer, CTO | work: +1.949.833.2800
gbolcer at endeavors.com | http://endeavors.com
Endeavors Technology, Inc.| cell: +1.714.928.5476
| 0 |
Re: Wifi query
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:
--]Elias Sinderson wrote:
--]> 802.11b - 11Mbps per channel over three channels in the 2.4GHz range
--]> (also shared with microwaves and cordless phones)
--]
--]Microwaves, cordless phones and video-based baby monitors....
Well I dont have to worry about microwavers in the house. Ours died a week
or so ago and due to doing some research we will nto be getting anysuch
device in the near or far future. I mean even if one half of the crap it
is reported to do is true it s just not worth it for a quick cup or warm
chai.
Which brings me to the fact that finding a good Convection only (not combo
with a microwaver) oven of any good size is dang near impossible unless
you go up to the bizness sizes. thankfully there is Dehlongi of which
costco has thru thier online store.
Now of course the question is do we get it delivered to the old house or
the new one (yep we got our offer approved and are in the short run down
to a long mortage:) we close on oct 31. though the realestate agent says
t happens like that a lot, I still find it incrediably jolting to have
found a house inthe hood I want with the space dawn wants on sunday and we
are signing papers on tuesday night with a close at the end of the month.
Which of course means....wifi land for wsmf:)- )
So far I like the Linksys dsl/cable router all in one wifi ap. The Dlink
has the funky 22mb stuff IF you use all thier stuff across the net and the
way things go I cant say thats gonna happen for sure. Pluse the Linksys
stuff is all over the mass market sotres so I cna walk home with parts at
any time.
The fun now comes with a realization that with ATTbi cable as my main hose
tot he net offering up bwf might be a tad problematic....So i am thinking
of ways around/through/under that. the setup of the particualrs are far
form set in stone...any ideas would be welcome.
Also any portlanders.....party time.
-tom
| 0 |
Re: Optical analog computing?
At 4:34 PM -0400 on 10/2/02, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
> --- begin forwarded text
>
>
> Status: RO
> Delivered-To: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
Sigh. Shoot me, now...
My apologies.
Cheers,
RAH
--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
| 0 |
Apple Sauced...again
Over on Arstechnica (www.arstechnica.com) I saw mention of a Wired article
that goes into the many wonderfull ways Apple is showing its love and
respect for its users.
http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,55395,00.html
There is a good rundown of all the whys and whatfores over at
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/02q3/macosx-10.2/macosx-10.2-5.html
"True to form, industrious third party developers saw that they could gain
a competitive advantage by supporting this more capable user interface in
their applications. Apple's private menu extras APIs were reverse
engineered and leveraged to great effect. The architecture was so popular
that an application for managing predefined sets of menu extras (third
party or otherwise) was in development.
All of that changed with the release of Jaguar--but not because the
private APIs had changed. If they had, third party developers would have
updated their applications to work with the new APIs, as they have
resigned themselves to doing by choosing to use private APIs in the first
place.
But what actually happened in Jaguar was that Apple added code to forcibly
exclude all non-Apple menu extras. Other parts of the API did not change.
But when a menu extra is loaded, it is compared to a hard-coded list of
"known" menu extras from Apple. If the menu extra is not on that list, it
is not allowed to load.
It's easy to laugh at Steve Ballmer's sweat-soaked gyrations as he chants
"developers, developers, developers!", but Microsoft clearly understands
something that Apple is still struggling with. It is in a platform
vendor's best interest to encourage development for its platform. In
Apple's case, this doesn't mean that they have to bend over backwards to
make every single system service and UI element "pluggable" via public
APIs. That's clearly a lot of work, and not something that needs to be the
number one priority for an OS in its infancy. And in the meantime, if
third party developers want to sell into a market that requires the
desired functionality to be added in "unsupported" ways, then they must be
prepared for the maintenance consequences of their decisions.
But for Apple to go out of its way--to actually expend developer
effort--to stop these third party developers, while still failing to
provide a supported alternative, is incredibly foolish. "
| 0 |
NYTimes.com Article: Stop Those Presses! Blonds, It Seems, Will
This article from NYTimes.com
has been sent to you by khare@alumni.caltech.edu.
Excellent evidence of the herd. Just imagine if the anonymous noise injected into our world newsphere (noosphere?) was, say, a fraudulent story that a stock accounting scandal had been accused and the evildoers were shorting.
Oh, wait, that happened. An unemployed Orange County student took down Emulex...
Enjoy!
Rohit
khare@alumni.caltech.edu
Stop Those Presses! Blonds, It Seems, Will Survive After All
October 2, 2002
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN
Apparently it fell into the category "too good to check."
Last Friday, several British newspapers reported that the
World Health Organization had found in a study that blonds
would become extinct within 200 years, because blondness
was caused by a recessive gene that was dying out. The
reports were repeated on Friday by anchors for the ABC News
program "Good Morning America," and on Saturday by CNN.
There was only one problem, the health organization said in
a statement yesterday that it never reported that blonds
would become extinct, and it had never done a study on the
subject.
"W.H.O. has no knowledge of how these news reports
originated," said the organization, an agency of the United
Nations based in Geneva, "but would like to stress that we
have no opinion of the future existence of blonds."
All the news reports, in Britain and the United States,
cited a study from the World Health Organization - "a
blonde-shell study," as The Daily Star of London put it.
But none reported any scientific details from the study or
the names of the scientists who conducted it.
On "Good Morning America," Charles Gibson began a
conversation with his co-anchor, Diane Sawyer, by saying:
"There's a study from the World Health Organization, this
is for real, that blonds are an endangered species. Women
and men with blond hair, eyebrows and blue eyes, natural
blonds, they say will vanish from the face of the earth
within 200 years, because it is not as strong a gene as
brunets."
Ms. Sawyer said she was "somewhat of a natural blonde."
Jeffrey Schneider, a spokesman for ABC News, said the
anchors got the information from an ABC producer in London
who said he had read it in a British newspaper.
In London, The Sun and The Express both reported that
unnamed scientists said blonds would survive longest in
Scandinavia, where they are most concentrated, and expected
the last true blond to hail from Finland.
The British accounts were replete with the views of
bleached blonds who said hairdressers would never allow
blondness to become extinct, and doctors who said that rare
genes would pop up to keep natural blonds from becoming an
endangered species.
Journalists in London said last night that the source of
the reports was probably one of several European news
agencies that are used by the British press, but it
remained unclear which one.
Tim Hall, a night news editor at The Daily Mail, said the
report was probably distributed by The Press Association,
Britain's domestic news agency. "Several papers picked it
up," he said.
But Charlotte Gapper, night editor at The Press
Association, said that although it had considered running
the report on Sept. 27, it had decided not to after talking
to the World Health Organization.
"We didn't do that story because we made an inquiry to the
World Health Organization first," she said. "They told us
that report was two years old, and had been covered at the
time. They said it had been picked up again that day by a
German news agency."
She added that she did not know which agency the
organization was referring to.
Dr. Ray White, a geneticist at the University of California
at San Francisco, said that the disappearance of a gene for
blond hair "sounds patently incorrect."
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/02/health/02BLON.html?ex=1034599071&ei=1&en=3a0e4f0b2b251593
HOW TO ADVERTISE
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or other creative advertising opportunities with The
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onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo
For general information about NYTimes.com, write to
help@nytimes.com.
Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company
| 0 |
Re: Apple Sauced...again
>>>>> "E" == Eirikur Hallgrimsson <eh@mad.scientist.com> writes:
E> ... If my environment cannot be made beautiful, in
E> some sense I cannot live.
"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be
beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you
discover that there is no reason." -- John Cage
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
- blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)
| 0 |
wifi progress
Well it looks pretty much 99% sure that we will be moving in on Nov 1 to
the new house. I think the only thing that stops us now are acts of
dieties and total economic collapse..so no one mention the dow for the
next few weeks..
In preperation we drove to Best Buy tonight and picked up the test core
for the wifi net. I got a linksys BEFW11S4(1) for the router/hub/wireless
ap/firewall/etc and a linksys wifi pcmcia card for the laptop
I made one false move so it took about 30 mins all told to set up the
card, the router, and the other 3 machines in the house on the wire ether
hub. All vfery neat very easy and very very cool set up via the
webinterface. I have to dig into the firewall/nat/routing features some
more (i have been reading up the wifi security blackpaper on ars technica)
but all in all a smooth move.
Now the place im at now, the house soon to be the ex house, has lots of
funky things going on in the walls and in the area. We are in ,
essentialy, a gravel pit..recption of all types suck and transmisions get
goofy inside the pit. That being said... with 2 walls and 40 feet between
the AP and the pcmica card (no external antena on it) Im still getting
11mbs and at least 60% goodness.
Some cool things about the new house...its a 1912 job so no metal works
inthe walls to speak of , mostly wood and plaster. We dont have a
microwave and our cordless phines are on 900mhz (yea so I can use my bear
cat to listen in on some calls, with kids in the house is that such a bad
thing? Ben or heather, if you read this years from now...well by then I
hope youare better at countermoeasures:)- )
Ok, enough testing for tonight. I gota say, being able to do this in bed
by vncing via wifi to my desktop is a blast...oh no...wifes pillow is
heading this way....DUCKKKKK
(1)http://www.linksys.com/Products/product.asp?grid=23&prid=173
| 0 |
Re: Apple Sauced...again
On Wednesday 02 October 2002 06:37 pm, Tom wrote:
> But what actually happened in Jaguar was that Apple added code to
> exclude all non-Apple menu extras.
Too, too, too, true. Just you try to muck with Job's blessed Aqua
interface. Or remove the fscking dock. OSX is such a step down from
Classic with Kaleidoscope skinning the entire UI. As an artist, I resent
it deeply. (This is not in praise of Classic.) If my environment cannot
be made beautiful, in some sense I cannot live.
Eirikur
| 0 |
The 3rd Annual Consult Hyperion Digital Identity Forum
--- begin forwarded text
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.0.2006
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:56:39 +0100
Subject: The 3rd Annual Consult Hyperion Digital Identity Forum
From: "David G.W. Birch" <dgw-lists@birches.org>
To: Bob Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
Cc: Digital Bearer Settlement List <dbs@philodox.com>
Dear All,
See www.digitalidentityforum.com for more details. Speakers include
Microsoft and Liberty Alliance, UK central and local government, law
enforcement, financial services (Egg and RBS/NatWest), EC Research Centre, a
psychologist and others. Look forward to seeing you there.
Regards,
Dave Birch.
--
-- David Birch, Director, Consult Hyperion
--
-- tel +44 (0)1483 301793, fax +44 (0)1483 561657
-- mail dave@chyp.com, web http://www.chyp.com
--
-- See you at the 2nd Annual Digital Transactions Forum in Singapore
-- October 16th/17th 2002, see http://www.digitaltransactionsforum.com/
--- end forwarded text
--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
| 0 |
Re: Apple Sauced...again
At 1:16 AM -0400 on 10/3/02, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
> "The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be
> beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you
> discover that there is no reason." -- John Cage
"When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only
how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not
beautiful, I know it is wrong." -- R. Buckminster Fuller
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all
difficulties." -- Frederic Chopin
"Externalities are the last refuge of the dirigistes." -- Friedrich Hayek
--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"The stoical scheme of supplying our wants by lopping off our
desires is like cutting off our feet when we want shoes."
-- Jonathan Swift
| 0 |
Re: Apple Sauced...again
>>>>> "R" == R A Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com> writes:
R> "When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I
R> think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished,
R> if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." --
R> R. Buckminster Fuller
"It was only /after/ I'd completed the geodesic dome that I noticed it
was beautiful" --- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
- blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)
| 0 |
Re: The Wrong Business
people with too much time on their hands..
look at this first (8meg, so takes a loong time):
http://www.ntk.net/2002/09/27/jesus_large.jpg
and then look at this reduction:
http://www.ntk.net/2002/09/27/jesus_small.jpg
--
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
| 0 |
Re: The Wrong Business
Actually this is output from an old java program called jitter.
It's very useful for those of us with digital cameras who end up
taking 50+ pictures a day while on vacation ;)
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
- blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)
| 0 |
Re: The Wrong Business
egad ... you mean there's two of them??? I knew there was a reason
my jobs board had jumped to the top of my traffic list.
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
- blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)
| 0 |
Re: The 3rd Annual Consult Hyperion Digital Identity Forum
--- begin forwarded text
To: rah@shipwright.com
From: hacker@vudu.net
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 06:01:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: The 3rd Annual Consult Hyperion Digital Identity Forum
The guy messed up his own URL. It should be
http://www.digitalidforum.com which redirects to
http://www.consult.hyperion.co.uk/digid3.html
"R. A. Hettinga" wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> See www.digitalidentityforum.com for more details. Speakers
include
> Microsoft and Liberty Alliance, UK central and local government,
> law
> enforcement, financial services (Egg and RBS/NatWest), EC
Research
> Centre, a
> psychologist and others. Look forward to seeing you there.
>
> Regards,
> Dave Birch.
>
> --
> -- David Birch, Director, Consult Hyperion
> --
> -- tel +44 (0)1483 301793, fax +44 (0)1483 561657
> -- mail dave@chyp.com, web <a
href="http://mail.vudu.net//jump/http://www.chyp.com">http://www.chyp.com</a>
> --
> -- See you at the 2nd Annual Digital Transactions Forum in
> Singapore
> -- October 16th/17th 2002, see
> <a
href="http://mail.vudu.net//jump/http://www.digitaltransactionsforum.com">http://www.digitaltransactionsforum.com</a>/
>
> --- end forwarded text
>
>
> --
> -----------------
> R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <<a
href="http://mail.vudu.net//jump/http://www.ibuc.com/>">http://www.ibuc.com/></a>;
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and
> antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the
Roman
> Empire'
>
> For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a
> message to
> "dcsb-request@reservoir.com" with one line of text:
"help".
--- end forwarded text
--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
| 0 |
Re: Living Love - Another legacy of the 60's
>>>>> "S" == Stephen D Williams <sdw@lig.net> writes:
S> The purpose of our lives is to be free of all addictive traps,
S> and thus become one with the ocean of Living Love.
"One choice is a psychosis. Two, a neurosis" -- Ven Joan Shikai
Woodward, Northern Mountain Order of the White Wind Zen Community
just a thought.
(oh, yes, the bits: Women in Zen - http://lhamo.tripod.com/2zen.htm)
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
- blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)
| 0 |
Living Love - Another legacy of the 60's
Normally, I disdain any kind of mysticism, even when it is associated
with fairly good ideas. Just a big turnoff. A good example would be
the difference between Yoga/TM and the more scientifically pure, but
related, relaxation techniques including "betagenics",
hypnosis/auto-hypnosis, etc. (This was one of the many topics I
obsessively absorbed as a teenager.) Or Tai Chi etc. vs. Tai Bo /
G-Force Dyno-Staff.
I have to say however that, having found this while looking for
something completely unrelated, it has some cute truisms. I
particularly like their addiction to non-addiction. Additionally, the
Mindprod treehugger site has some interesting quotes, etc.
To my internal ear, nearly all of these 60's based new-age vernacular
seem to assume that you are a simple child (of the 60's?) who needs some
religion-like couching of ideas to relate and internalize. Very
irritating, but taken in small doses it's interesting to compare and
contrast with our (my) modern mental models.
I found that a few of the principles could be used to explain and
justify US/UN foreign policy and actions.
http://mindprod.com/methods.html
http://members.aol.com/inossence/Kenkey.html
http://www.mindprod.com/
(Apologies for the embedded HTML.)
We create the world we live in.
A loving person lives in a loving world,
A hostile person lives in a hostile world.
Everyone you meet is your mirror.
You make yourself and others suffer just as much when you take offence
as when you give offence. To be upset over what you don't have is to
waste what you do have.
The past is dead,
The future is imaginary,
Happiness can only be
in the Eternal Now Moment
How soon will you realize that the only thing you don't have is the
direct experience that there's nothing you need that you don't have.
Love a person because he or she is there.
This is the only reason.
Happiness happens when your consciousness is not dominated by addictions
and demands~ and you experience life as a parade of preferences.
The
purpose
of our lives
is to be free
of all addictive traps,
and thus
become one
with the ocean of
Living Love.
sdw
--
sdw@lig.net http://sdw.st
Stephen D. Williams 43392 Wayside Cir,Ashburn,VA 20147-4622
703-724-0118W 703-995-0407Fax Dec2001
| 0 |
RE: Living Love - Another legacy of the 60's
draw the pain
"Ken never wrote about this method, but he often demonstrated it in
workshops. Let us say you have a physical pain somewhere in your body. You
draw the pain in the air with your finger, about 30 cm (1 foot) high. Take
about 60 seconds to trace around the perimeter of the pain, carefully
listening to the pain to find the precise boundary between where it hurts
and where it does not. Repeat. You will find that after about 10 minutes of
this the pain will shift, shrink or disappear. A variant of this is to
imagine making a 3D model the pain in coloured clay."
Works! There's this coworker - a real pain in my ass! I used my middle
finger to trace his outline for about 60 seconds. I listened to him, found
the boundary, and repeated the motion. He left my office!
-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
Stephen D. Williams
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:33 PM
To: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
Subject: Living Love - Another legacy of the 60's
Normally, I disdain any kind of mysticism, even when it is associated
with fairly good ideas. Just a big turnoff. A good example would be
the difference between Yoga/TM and the more scientifically pure, but
related, relaxation techniques including "betagenics",
hypnosis/auto-hypnosis, etc. (This was one of the many topics I
obsessively absorbed as a teenager.) Or Tai Chi etc. vs. Tai Bo /
G-Force Dyno-Staff.
I have to say however that, having found this while looking for
something completely unrelated, it has some cute truisms. I
particularly like their addiction to non-addiction. Additionally, the
Mindprod treehugger site has some interesting quotes, etc.
To my internal ear, nearly all of these 60's based new-age vernacular
seem to assume that you are a simple child (of the 60's?) who needs some
religion-like couching of ideas to relate and internalize. Very
irritating, but taken in small doses it's interesting to compare and
contrast with our (my) modern mental models.
I found that a few of the principles could be used to explain and
justify US/UN foreign policy and actions.
http://mindprod.com/methods.html
http://members.aol.com/inossence/Kenkey.html
http://www.mindprod.com/
(Apologies for the embedded HTML.)
We create the world we live in.
A loving person lives in a loving world,
A hostile person lives in a hostile world.
Everyone you meet is your mirror.
You make yourself and others suffer just as much when you take offence
as when you give offence. To be upset over what you don't have is to
waste what you do have.
The past is dead,
The future is imaginary,
Happiness can only be
in the Eternal Now Moment
How soon will you realize that the only thing you don't have is the
direct experience that there's nothing you need that you don't have.
Love a person because he or she is there.
This is the only reason.
Happiness happens when your consciousness is not dominated by addictions
and demands~ and you experience life as a parade of preferences.
The
purpose
of our lives
is to be free
of all addictive traps,
and thus
become one
with the ocean of
Living Love.
sdw
--
sdw@lig.net http://sdw.st
Stephen D. Williams 43392 Wayside Cir,Ashburn,VA 20147-4622
703-724-0118W 703-995-0407Fax Dec2001
| 0 |
Re: ActiveBuddy
On 10/2/02 12:00 PM, "Mr. FoRK" <fork_list@hotmail.com> wrote:
> What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the bot, but
> they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
> example: two people discussing trips, etc. may trigger a weather bot to
> mention what the forecast says - without directly being asked.
My guess is it's more insidious than that, it's going to be ActiveSpam.
"Oh, you're going to Seattle? I can get you airline tickets for less"
Yuck
--
peregrine \PEH-ruh-grun or PEH-ruh-green\ (adjective)
: having a tendency to wander
| 0 |
Blatantly stolen from a friend's LJ
Hello Fork,
http://www.pimprig.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=72&page=2
This kid has -way- WAY too much time on his hands.
--
Best regards,
bitbitch mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net
| 0 |
Economist: Internet models, viral spread, social diseases
Not exactly new bits, but I enjoyed seeing The Economist
pick up on the similarity between computer and social
networks:
http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1365118
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
| 0 |
Re: ActiveBuddy
--------------080209060700030309080805
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I actually thought of this kind of active chat at AOL (in 1996 I think),
bringing up ads based on what was being discussed and other features.
For a while, the VP of dev. (now still CTO I think) was really hot on
the idea and they discussed patenting it. Then they lost interest.
Probably a good thing.
sdw
Lorin Rivers wrote:
>On 10/2/02 12:00 PM, "Mr. FoRK" <fork_list@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the bot, but
>>they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
>>example: two people discussing trips, etc. may trigger a weather bot to
>>mention what the forecast says - without directly being asked.
>>
>>
>
>My guess is it's more insidious than that, it's going to be ActiveSpam.
>
>"Oh, you're going to Seattle? I can get you airline tickets for less"
>
>Yuck
>
>
--------------080209060700030309080805
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
I actually thought of this kind of active chat at AOL (in 1996 I think),
bringing up ads based on what was being discussed and other features. For
a while, the VP of dev. (now still CTO I think) was really hot on the idea
and they discussed patenting it. Then they lost interest. Probably a good
thing.<br>
<br>
sdw<br>
<br>
Lorin Rivers wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midB9C28892.35FF2%25lrivers@realsoftware.com">
<pre wrap="">On 10/2/02 12:00 PM, "Mr. FoRK" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fork_list@hotmail.com"><fork_list@hotmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the bot, but
they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
example: two people discussing trips, etc. may trigger a weather bot to
mention what the forecast says - without directly being asked.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
My guess is it's more insidious than that, it's going to be ActiveSpam.
"Oh, you're going to Seattle? I can get you airline tickets for less"
Yuck
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>
--------------080209060700030309080805--
| 0 |
Headline - Navel gazing wins an Ig Nobel
Greetings,
Carey wants you to know about a story on www.theage.com.au
Personal Message:
Ah the Ig Nobels, always worth a read :) If only they had a cat-mood decipherer. ^__^
Navel gazing wins an Ig Nobel
By Jay Lindsay <br>Boston
October 05 2002
URL: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/04/1033538774048.html
| 0 |
Re: no matter where you go
... nor what color your passport?
More American exceptionalism:
<http://www.iht.com/articles/72079.htm>
> "The United States is the only country in the world to tax its citizens
> on a worldwide basis, irrespective of whether they spend time in the
> country or whether they have assets there," said Philip Marcovici,
> a Zurich-based lawyer with international law firm Baker and Mackenzie.
and perhaps even irrespective of their
current citizenship:
> Under current expatriation law, there are wealth thresholds based on
> net worth which lead to a presumption that a person giving up U.S.
> citizenship is doing so for tax reasons.
>
> Individuals who have given up their citizenship and who have earned
> $100,000 in any one of the 10 years before expatriation, or who have a
> net worth exceeding $500,000, would automatically be deemed a so-called
> "taxpatriate." Those persons would be subject to ordinary income tax
> on U.S. source income for 10 years. They would also be subject to
> U.S. estate and gift tax during the 10-year period.
I suppose it could be much worse;
there could be some twee affinity
program for US citizenship, and a
bank of phone people who only get
paid well if they manage to keep
one from cancelling membership...
-Dave
:::::::
> Last month, Congress proposed a new exit tax on all citizens who give up
> their U.S. status. If the proposal becomes law, individuals will be taxed
> as if they had either sold everything or died. This would give rise to
> immediate exposure to capital gains tax.
To be fair, would this mean that they'd
also immediately pay out the difference
for anyone whose tax basis was greater
than current estate value?
:::::::
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2299119.stm>
> ... Australian cities overall scored particularly highly in the
> [Economist Intelligence Unit] survey [of desirability for expats],
> with all five the country's urban centres surveyed ranked near the
> top of the table.
>
> Europe was also well represented among the top 10 places.
>
> The top US city, Honolulu, ranked 21st, with Boston, at 28th, the
> highest ranked city on the US mainland. Canada, in contrast, sneaked
> three cities into the top ten.
>
> The UK cities of London, 44th, and Manchester, 50th, gained only a
> mid-table rating, with Port Moresby in Papua New Guinea bottom of
> the list.
| 0 |
Documentum Acquires E-Room, Melding Content, Collaboration
Don't know much about eRoom - but there is the magic phrase 'collaborate in
real-time'... Groove really has people running scared. Wonder if any users
actually /benefit/ from collaborating in real-time.
===
http://www.internetwk.com/breakingNews/INW20021004S0001
Content-management vendor Documentum said late Thursday it plans to acquire
privately held e-Room Technologies in a deal worth about $100 million.
Documentum will issue approximately 7.7 million shares of its common stock
and pay about $12.6 million in cash for all of the outstanding shares of
eRoom.
Documentum makes a platform for enterprise-wide content management. ERoom
makes tools for enterprise collaboration. Its customers include Airbus,
Bausch & Lomb, Ford Motor Co., and Sony.
Documentum announced plans this summer to deliver a new Collaboration
Edition of its content-management suite. ERoom was already integrating its
tools to the Documentum platform, making an acquisition an easy target,
according to Documentum president and CEO Dave DeWalt.
With the upcoming joint product, customers will be able to collaborate in
real-time via virtual workspaces, sharing schedules, resources, and even
jointly creating content.
Content creation and management has always been a collaborative task, but
workflow has usually been delivered via a Web browser interface or even
simple e-mail -- and rarely in real-time.
For now, Documentum will sell the eRoom platform and its own
content-management system through combined sales channels. Further
integration is planned down the line, the companies said.
| 0 |
[IRR] Re: The 3rd Annual Consult Hyperion Digital Identity Forum
On 4/10/02 1:13 am, someone e-said:
> The guy messed up his own URL. It should be
> http://www.digitalidforum.com which redirects to
> http://www.consult.hyperion.co.uk/digid3.html
I didn't mess it up: I f*cked it up by not paying attention to a
copy-and-paste from something else.
Next time, I really will leave it to the PR guys.
Best regards,
Dave Birch.
_______________________________________________
Irregulars mailing list
Irregulars@tb.tf
http://tb.tf/mailman/listinfo/irregulars
| 0 |
Re: Documentum Acquires E-Room, Melding Content, Collaboration
"Groove really has people running scared"
....oh shit here comes that Groove thingy, run for your life ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mr. FoRK" <fork_list@hotmail.com>
To: <fork@spamassassin.taint.org>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 8:12 PM
Subject: Documentum Acquires E-Room, Melding Content, Collaboration
>
> Don't know much about eRoom - but there is the magic phrase 'collaborate
in
> real-time'... Groove really has people running scared. Wonder if any users
> actually /benefit/ from collaborating in real-time.
>
>
> ===
> http://www.internetwk.com/breakingNews/INW20021004S0001
>
> Content-management vendor Documentum said late Thursday it plans to
acquire
> privately held e-Room Technologies in a deal worth about $100 million.
>
> Documentum will issue approximately 7.7 million shares of its common stock
> and pay about $12.6 million in cash for all of the outstanding shares of
> eRoom.
>
> Documentum makes a platform for enterprise-wide content management. ERoom
> makes tools for enterprise collaboration. Its customers include Airbus,
> Bausch & Lomb, Ford Motor Co., and Sony.
>
> Documentum announced plans this summer to deliver a new Collaboration
> Edition of its content-management suite. ERoom was already integrating its
> tools to the Documentum platform, making an acquisition an easy target,
> according to Documentum president and CEO Dave DeWalt.
>
> With the upcoming joint product, customers will be able to collaborate in
> real-time via virtual workspaces, sharing schedules, resources, and even
> jointly creating content.
>
> Content creation and management has always been a collaborative task, but
> workflow has usually been delivered via a Web browser interface or even
> simple e-mail -- and rarely in real-time.
>
> For now, Documentum will sell the eRoom platform and its own
> content-management system through combined sales channels. Further
> integration is planned down the line, the companies said.
>
>
>
| 0 |
Whither vCard?
Does anyone know what happened to vCard support in Netscape 7.0/Mozilla
1.1?
(Not there yet in Mozilla and therefore not in the new mail engine I
presume?)
Netscape Messenger/Mozilla have LDAP LDIF import/export, but I can't
find vCard or a reference to it anywhere. I like the Netscape/Mozilla
email client. I avoid LookOut for at least two reasons: Windows Only
(my main environment is Linux with 30% on Windows) and security issues.
Now that LDAP, and the related DSML and DNS SRV record methods, are
becoming more popular, is there a decline of vCard?
Is there a standard emerging to deal with the mismatch in naming between
the two?
I've brushed with directories in the past, but I'm getting in deep along
with more PKI oriented focus. Any wisdom would be appreciated. In
particular, I'm going to start integrating smart cards into my linux and
Win32 systems and integrating them with Netscape Messenger/Mozilla and
Outlook.
Thanks
sdw
| 0 |
RE: Headline - Navel gazing wins an Ig Nobel
"British scientists were honoured for research that found ostriches became
more amorous with each other when a human was around. In fact, ostriches
eventually started putting the moves on humans."
this is true of manatees also. you don't want to know.
-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Carey
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:03 PM
To: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
Subject: Headline - Navel gazing wins an Ig Nobel
Greetings,
Carey wants you to know about a story on www.theage.com.au
Personal Message:
Ah the Ig Nobels, always worth a read :) If only they had a cat-mood
decipherer. ^__^
Navel gazing wins an Ig Nobel
By Jay Lindsay <br>Boston
October 05 2002
URL: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/04/1033538774048.html
| 0 |
Re: Headline - Navel gazing wins an Ig Nobel
Geege Schuman wrote:
>"British scientists were honoured for research that found ostriches became
>more amorous with each other when a human was around. In fact, ostriches
>eventually started putting the moves on humans."
>
>this is true of manatees also. you don't want to know.
>
>
>
So how much of it is due to jumping the inter-species boundary for
STATUS - i.e. I can fuck any of several
reasonable candidates from my own species, or I can be ambitious, and
go after the authority figure in the room.
The alternative hypothesis is that its due to novelty, and then of
course, there's the "they'll fuck anything given
appropriate conditions." Hmmm, is this a potential intelligence test,
seeing as the last is a particularily human response?
Owen
| 0 |
Re: Economist: Internet models, viral spread, social diseases
The structure of the Internet has never
been about where the ditches and ruts
are dug although the world needs
ditch diggers too.
It's a simple inductive concept:
You are you and see the world as such,
You plus 1 degree of separation is a new you.
All this stuff about scale-free Internets, viruses,
sex, and money is silly. Scale-free statistically
indistinguishable models really means Internet-Scale
as rediscovered by social networks people.
> Research has shown that the network of human sexual partners
> seems to be scale-free, too
I tend to prefer the Harvard Business Review
to the Economist as they tend to spend less
time writing about who's sleeping with whom and
come up with real statistical models.
Greg
Lies, Damn lies, and statistics.
Russell Turpin wrote:
> Not exactly new bits, but I enjoyed seeing The Economist
> pick up on the similarity between computer and social
> networks:
>
> http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1365118
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
--
Gregory Alan Bolcer, CTO | work: +1.949.833.2800
gbolcer at endeavors.com | http://endeavors.com
Endeavors Technology, Inc.| cell: +1.714.928.5476
| 0 |
Re: Apple Sauced...again
Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
> R. Buckminster Fuller
>
> "It was only /after/ I'd completed the geodesic dome that I noticed it
> was beautiful" --- R. Buckminster Fuller
I had cited the information theoretic concept of "elegance"
in my dissertation & did a Google to find the reference and instead
found a really great tech report for UoT Knoxville by Bruce
MacLennan. He cites Efficiency, Economy, and Elegance, but
I think he's wrong. The middle E should be Effectiveness.
Otherwise kudos.
Efficiency is the relation of output to input effectiveness is
the total output. In information theory, something is both elegant
and efficient if no smaller or less costly something can product the
same output in the same amount of time.
Greg
[1] http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/anon-ftp/Elegance.html
``Who Cares About Elegance?''
The Role of Aesthetics in Programming Language Design
Technical Report UT-CS-97-344
Bruce J. MacLennan
Computer Science Department
University of Tennessee, Knoxville
MacLennan@cs.utk.edu
Abstract
The crucial role played by aesthetics in programming language design and the importance of elegance in
programming languages are defended on the basis of analogies with structural engineering, as presented in
Billington's The Tower and the Bridge.
This report may be used for any nonprofit purpose provided that its source is acknowledged. It will be adapted
for
inclusion in the third edition of my Principles of Programming Languages.
1.The Value of Analogies
2.Efficiency Seeks to Minimize Resources Used
3.Economy Seeks to Maximize Benefit versus Cost
4.Elegance Symbolizes Good Design
1.For the Designer
2.For the User
5.The Programming Language as Work Environment
6.Acquiring a Sense of Elegance
7.References
The Value of Analogies
Programming language design is a comparatively new activity - it has existed for less than half a century, so
it is
often worthwhile to look to older design disciplines to understand better this new activity. Thus, my book
Principles of Programming Languages: Design, Evaluation, and Implementation, grew out of a study of teaching
methods in architecture, primarily, but also of pedagogy in other disciplines, such as aircraft design.
Perhaps you
have also seen analogies drawn between programming languages and cars (FORTRAN = Model T, C = dune
buggy, etc.).
These analogies can be very informative, and can serve as ``intuition pumps'' to enhance our creativity, but
they
cannot be used uncritically because they are, in the end, just analogies. Ultimately our design decisions must
be
based on more than analogies, since analogies can be misleading as well as informative.
In this essay I'll address the role of aesthetics in programming language design, but I will base my remarks
on a
book about structural engineering, The Tower and the Bridge, by David P. Billington. Although there are many
differences between bridges and programming languages, we will find that many ideas and insights transfer
rather
directly.
According to Billington, there are three values common to many technological activities, which we can call
``the
three E's'': Efficiency, Economy and Elegance. These values correspond to three dimensions of technology,
which
Billington calls the scientific, social and symbolic dimensions (the three S's). We will consider each in
turn.
Efficiency Seeks to Minimize Resources Used
In structural engineering, efficiency deals with the amount of material used; the basic criterion is safety
and the
issues are scientific (strength of materials, disposition of forces, etc.). Similarly, in programming language
design,
efficiency is a scientific question dealing with the use of resources. There are many examples where
efficiency
considerations influenced programming language design (some are reviewed in my Principles of Programming
Languages). In the early days, the resources to be minimized were often runtime memory usage and processing
time, although compile-time resource utilization was also relevant. In other cases the resource economized was
programmer typing time, and there are well-known cases in which this compromised safety (e.g. FORTRAN's
implicit declarations). There are also many well-known cases in which security (i.e. safety) was sacrificed
for the
sake of efficiency by neglecting runtime error checking (e.g. array bounds checking).
Efficiency issues often can be quantified in terms of computer memory or time, but we must be careful that we
are
not comparing apples and oranges. Compile time is not interchangeable run time, and neither one is the same as
programmer time. Similarly, computer memory cannot be traded off against computer time unless both are
reduced to a common denominator, such as money, but this brings in economic considerations, to which we now
turn.
Economy Seeks to Maximize Benefit versus Cost
Whereas efficiency is a scientific issue, economy is a social issue. In structural engineering, economy seeks
to
maximize social benefit compared to its cost. (This is especially appropriate since structures like bridges
are
usually built at public expense for the benefit of the public.) In programming language design, the ``public''
that
must be satisfied is the programming community that will use the language and the institutions for which these
programmers work.
Economic tradeoffs are hard to make because economic values change and are difficult to predict. For example,
the shift from first to second generation programming languages was largely a result of a decrease in the cost
of
computer time compared to programmer time, the shift from the second to the third generation involved the
increasing cost of residual bugs in programs, and the fourth generation reflected the increasing cost of
program
maintenance compared to program development.
Other social factors involved in the success or failure of a programming language include: whether major
manufacturers support the language, whether prestigious universities teach it, whether it is approved in some
way
by influential organizations (such as the US Department of Defense), whether it has been standardized, whether
it
comes to be perceived as a ``real'' language (used by ``real programmers'') or as a ``toy'' language (used by
novices
or dilettantes), and so forth. As can be seen from the historical remarks in my Principles, social factors are
frequently more important than scientific factors in determining the success or failure of a programming
language.
Often economic issues can be quantified in terms of money, but the monetary values of costs and benefits are
often
unstable and unpredictable because they depend on changing market forces. Also, many social issues, from
dissatisfaction with poorly designed software to human misery resulting from system failures, are inaccurately
represented by the single dimension of monetary cost. All kinds of ``cost'' and ``benefit'' must be considered
in
seeking an economical design.
Elegance Symbolizes Good Design
``Elegance? Who cares about elegance?'' snorts the hard-nosed engineer, but Billington shows clearly the
critical
role of elegance in ``hard-nosed'' engineering.
For the Designer
It is well-known that feature interaction poses a serious problem for language designers because of the
difficulty
of analyzing all the possible interactions of features in a language (see my Principles for examples).
Structural
engineers face similar problems of analytic complexity, but Billington observes that the best designers don't
make
extensive use of computer models and calculation.
One reason is that mathematical analysis is always incomplete. The engineer must make a decision about which
variables are significant and which are not, and an analysis may lead to incorrect conclusions if this
decision is not
made well. Also, equations are often simplified (e.g., made linear) to make their analysis feasible, and this
is
another potential source of error. Because of these limitations, engineers that depend on mathematical
analysis
may overdesign a structure to compensate for unforeseen effects left out of the analysis. Thus the price of
safety is
additional material and increased cost (i.e. decreased efficiency and economy).
Similarly in programming language design, the limitations of the analytic approach often force us to make a
choice between an under-engineered design, in which we run the risk of unanticipated interactions, and an
over-engineered design, in which we have confidence, but which is inefficient or uneconomical.
Many people have seen the famous film of the collapse in 1940 of the four-month-old Tacoma Narrows bridge; it
vibrated itself to pieces in a storm because aerodynamical stability had not been considered in its design.
Billington explains that this accident, along with a number of less dramatic bridge failures, was a
consequence of
an increasing use of theoretical analyses that began in the 1920s. However, the very problem that destroyed
the
Tacoma Narrows bridge had been anticipated and avoided a century before by bridge designers who were guided
by aesthetic principles.
According to Billington, the best structural engineers do not rely on mathematical analysis (although they do
not
abandon it altogether). Rather, their design activity is guided by a sense of elegance. This is because
solutions to
structural engineering problems are usually greatly underdetermined, that is, there are many possible
solutions to a
particular problem, such as bridging a particular river. Therefore, expert designers restrict their attention
to
designs in which the interaction of the forces is easy to see. The design looks unbalanced if the forces are
unbalanced, and the design looks stable if it is stable.
The general principle is that designs that look good will also be good, and therefore the design process can
be
guided by aesthetics without extensive (but incomplete) mathematical analysis. Billington expresses this idea
by
inverting the old architectural maxim and asserting that, in structural design, function follows form. He adds
(p.
21), ``When the form is well chosen, its analysis becomes astoundingly simple.'' In other words, the choice of
form is open and free, so we should pick forms where elegant design expresses good design (i.e. efficient and
economical design). If we do so, then we can let aesthetics guide design.
The same applies to programming language design. By restricting our attention to designs in which the
interaction
of features is manifest - in which good interactions look good, and bad interactions look bad - we can let our
aesthetic sense guide our design and we can be much more confident that we have a good design, without having
to
check all the possible interactions.
For the User
In this case, what's good for the designer also is good for the user. Nobody is comfortable crossing a bridge
that
looks like it will collapse at any moment, and nobody is comfortable using a programming language in which
features may ``explode'' if combined in the wrong way. The manifest balance of forces in a well-designed
bridge
gives us confidence when we cross it. So also, the manifestly good design of our programming language should
reinforce our confidence when we program in it, because we have (well-justified) confidence in the
consequences
of our actions.
We accomplish little by covering an unbalanced structure in a beautiful facade. When the bridge is unable to
sustain the load for which it was designed, and collapses, it won't much matter that it was beautiful on the
outside.
So also in programming languages. If the elegance is only superficial, that is, if it is not the manifestation
of a
deep coherence in the design, then programmers will quickly see through the illusion and loose their
(unwarranted)
confidence.
In summary, good designers choose to work in a region of the design space where good designs look good. As a
consequence, these designers can rely on their aesthetic sense, as can the users of the structures (bridges or
programming languages) they design. We may miss out on some good designs this way, but they are of limited
value unless both the designer and the user can be confident that they are good designs. We may summarize the
preceding discussion in a maxim analogous to those in my Principles of Programming Languages:
The Elegance Principle
Confine your attention to designs that look good because they are good.
The Programming Language as Work Environment
There are other reasons that elegance is relevant to a well-engineered programming language. The programming
language is something the professional programmer will live with - even live in. It should feel comfortable
and
safe, like a well-designed home or office; in this way it can contribute to the quality of the activities that
take
place within it. Would you work better in an oriental garden or a sweatshop?
A programming language should be a joy to use. This will encourage its use and decrease the programmer's
fatigue
and frustration. The programming language should not be a hindrance, but should serve more as a collaborator,
encouraging programmers to do their jobs better. As some automobiles are ``driving machines'' and work as a
natural extension of the driver, so a programming language should be a ``programming machine'' by encouraging
the programmer to acquire the smooth competence and seemingly effortless skill of a virtuoso. The programming
language should invite the programmer to design elegant, efficient and economical programs.
Through its aesthetic dimension a programming language symbolizes many values. For example, in the variety of
its features it may symbolize profligate excess, sparing economy or asceticism; the kind of its features may
represent intellectual sophistication, down-to-earth practicality or ignorant crudeness. Thus a programming
language can promote a set of values. By embodying certain values, it encourages us to think about them; by
neglecting or negating other values, it allows them to recede into the background and out of our attention.
Out of
sight, out of mind.
Acquiring a Sense of Elegance
Aesthetics is notoriously difficult to teach, so you may wonder how you are supposed to acquire that refined
sense
of elegance necessary to good design. Billington observes that this sense is acquired through extensive
experience
in design, which, especially in Europe, is encouraged by a competitive process for choosing bridge designers.
Because of it, structural engineers design many more bridges than they build, and they learn from each
competition they loose by comparing their own designs with those of the winner and other losers. The public
also
critiques the competing designs, and in this way becomes more educated; their sense of elegance develops along
with that of the designers.
So also, to improve as a programming language designer you should design many languages - design obsessively -
and criticize, revise and discard your designs. You should also evaluate and criticize other people's designs
and try
to improve them. In this way you will acquire the body of experience you will need when the ``real thing''
comes
along.
References
1.Billington, David P., The Tower and the Bridge: The New Art of Structural Engineering, Princeton:
Princeton University Press, 1983. Chapters 1 and 6 are the most relevant.
2.MacLennan, Bruce J., Principles of Programming Languages: Design, Evaluation, and Implementation,
second edition, New York: Holt, Rinehart & Winston (now Oxford University Press), 1987.
| 0 |
Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
Hijacker High (8/30)
Dalal Mughrabi was a Palestinian woman who participated in a 1978 bus
hijacking in which 36 Israelis and an American nature photographer, Gail
Ruban, were killed. Mughrabi has a Palestinian high school named after
her, and it's apparently starting to show signs of wear. Fortunately,
the United States Agency for International Development has stepped in
with money to help renovate it.
http://reason.com/brickbats/bb-april.shtml
Links to:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archi
ve\200208\FOR20020807e.html
Praeterea censeo Palestininem esse delendam.
| 0 |
RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
she read the links. what must it be like, she wondered, to devote ones life
to pointing out neighbors' mistakes, mishaps, inconsistencies and
frailties?
gloating is definitely underrated in the good book - eh, john?
bring it on,
gg
-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of John
Hall
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 11:56 PM
To: FoRK
Subject: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
Hijacker High (8/30)
Dalal Mughrabi was a Palestinian woman who participated in a 1978 bus
hijacking in which 36 Israelis and an American nature photographer, Gail
Ruban, were killed. Mughrabi has a Palestinian high school named after
her, and it's apparently starting to show signs of wear. Fortunately,
the United States Agency for International Development has stepped in
with money to help renovate it.
http://reason.com/brickbats/bb-april.shtml
Links to:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archi
ve\200208\FOR20020807e.html
Praeterea censeo Palestininem esse delendam.
| 0 |
Re: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
I propose they rename it "Charlie Heston High" and maybe the students
will learn to take AR-15s with extended military-spec scopes and .223
high-velocity ammo and start plinking innocent civilians at random in
the suburbs of Washington. That's far more effectual than blowing
oneself up in a bus.
In America these days, it seems that violence ascribed to any political
doctrine foreign to Bushism is vile and repugnant. But random violence
is entertainment and intrigue.
A couple of ex-FBI "consultants" speaking on the shootings in DC were
quoted as saying the shooters, presumed to be a pair, were getting a
"heroin-like high" from each successful kill and that they "for
whatever reason decided to level the playing field, thumbing their nose
at law enforcement and society."
See? Just a couple of kids having fun with Daddy's semi-automatic
hunting rifle. Harmless!
-Ian.
On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 11:01 PM, John Hall wrote:
>
> It wasn't gloating, it was one for the horror file.
>
> And of course for the Palestinians it wasn't a mistake, which is a key
> part of the horror.
>
> I'm not against American taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a
> killer
> if we do it with a daisy cutter.
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Geege Schuman [mailto:geege@barrera.org]
>> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 9:35 PM
>> To: johnhall@evergo.net; FoRK
>> Subject: RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
>>
>> she read the links. what must it be like, she wondered, to devote ones
>> life
>> to pointing out neighbors' mistakes, mishaps, inconsistencies and
>> frailties?
>>
>> gloating is definitely underrated in the good book - eh, john?
>>
>> bring it on,
>> gg
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
> John
>> Hall
>> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 11:56 PM
>> To: FoRK
>> Subject: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hijacker High (8/30)
>> Dalal Mughrabi was a Palestinian woman who participated in a 1978 bus
>> hijacking in which 36 Israelis and an American nature photographer,
> Gail
>> Ruban, were killed. Mughrabi has a Palestinian high school named after
>> her, and it's apparently starting to show signs of wear. Fortunately,
>> the United States Agency for International Development has stepped in
>> with money to help renovate it.
>>
>> http://reason.com/brickbats/bb-april.shtml
>>
>> Links to:
>>
>>
> http://www.cnsnews.com/
> ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archi
>> ve\200208\FOR20020807e.html
>>
>> Praeterea censeo Palestininem esse delendam.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
| 0 |
RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
It wasn't gloating, it was one for the horror file.
And of course for the Palestinians it wasn't a mistake, which is a key
part of the horror.
I'm not against American taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer
if we do it with a daisy cutter.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geege Schuman [mailto:geege@barrera.org]
> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 9:35 PM
> To: johnhall@evergo.net; FoRK
> Subject: RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
>
> she read the links. what must it be like, she wondered, to devote ones
> life
> to pointing out neighbors' mistakes, mishaps, inconsistencies and
> frailties?
>
> gloating is definitely underrated in the good book - eh, john?
>
> bring it on,
> gg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
John
> Hall
> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 11:56 PM
> To: FoRK
> Subject: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
>
>
>
>
> Hijacker High (8/30)
> Dalal Mughrabi was a Palestinian woman who participated in a 1978 bus
> hijacking in which 36 Israelis and an American nature photographer,
Gail
> Ruban, were killed. Mughrabi has a Palestinian high school named after
> her, and it's apparently starting to show signs of wear. Fortunately,
> the United States Agency for International Development has stepped in
> with money to help renovate it.
>
> http://reason.com/brickbats/bb-april.shtml
>
> Links to:
>
>
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archi
> ve\200208\FOR20020807e.html
>
> Praeterea censeo Palestininem esse delendam.
>
>
>
>
>
| 0 |
Re: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hall" <johnhall@evergo.net>
>
> I'm not against American taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer
> if we do it with a daisy cutter.
With or without occupants?
| 0 |
Re: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
John Hall wrote:
>It wasn't gloating, it was one for the horror file.
>
>And of course for the Palestinians it wasn't a mistake, which is a key
>part of the horror.
>
>I'm not against American taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer
>if we do it with a daisy cutter.
>
>
>
>
I'm sure the plan is that it will be renamed for the settler who kills
the last Palestinian in a few years.
Owen
| 0 |
RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
see my first line: I READ THE LINKS. brickbats. idiot.
-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Owen
Byrne
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 9:21 AM
To: johnhall@evergo.net
Cc: 'Geege Schuman'; 'FoRK'
Subject: Re: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
John Hall wrote:
>It wasn't gloating, it was one for the horror file.
>
>And of course for the Palestinians it wasn't a mistake, which is a key
>part of the horror.
>
>I'm not against American taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer
>if we do it with a daisy cutter.
>
>
>
>
I'm sure the plan is that it will be renamed for the settler who kills
the last Palestinian in a few years.
Owen
| 0 |
RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
When a settler goes postal and kills some Palestinians they are treated
as a criminal, not celebrated in word and song.
But you knew that.
When a Palestinian sets out, to great rejoicing, to attempt to target
children with a homicide-bomb, they are careful to dip the shrapnel in
rat poison. It helps prevent blood clotting in the victims, you see.
I'm sure all those Jewish homicide-bombers do the same. Oh wait, there
aren't any.
If the Palestinians are driven completely out, either by expulsion or
death, they will have nobody to blame but themselves. That won't stop
them or you from pretending otherwise.
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Owen
> Byrne
> I'm sure the plan is that it will be renamed for the settler who kills
> the last Palestinian in a few years.
>
> Owen
>
| 0 |
RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
when brickbats or fox exposes the folly of government they do so to
accomplish a specific end; dumping truckload after truckload of bad acts
proves their point: stupidity and greed typify government, therefore any
government is too much government.
-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of John
Hall
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 5:03 PM
Cc: 'FoRK'
Subject: RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
Yes, you read the links.
Sorry, but exposing folly is not only humorous but also instructive. It
is only by exposing folly to ridicule that you stop it in the first
place.
'Brickbats' leans heavily on both, though the item I highlighted was a
'horror' item not a 'gee that is stupid' item. For an example of the
latter, see the city that wanted a woman to pay a ticket for parking in
an UNmarked no-parking space.
> From: Geege Schuman [mailto:geege@barrera.org]
>
> see my first line: I READ THE LINKS. brickbats. idiot.
| 0 |
RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
Yes, you read the links.
Sorry, but exposing folly is not only humorous but also instructive. It
is only by exposing folly to ridicule that you stop it in the first
place.
'Brickbats' leans heavily on both, though the item I highlighted was a
'horror' item not a 'gee that is stupid' item. For an example of the
latter, see the city that wanted a woman to pay a ticket for parking in
an UNmarked no-parking space.
> From: Geege Schuman [mailto:geege@barrera.org]
>
> see my first line: I READ THE LINKS. brickbats. idiot.
| 0 |
Re: The absurdities of life.
I call PacBell/SBC every two or three months about a recurring problem
we have at my house:
We get a phone bill every month for someone who no longer lives at our
house for a phone line which has been disconnected for over three years
and the account balance is (drum roll please) $0.00! Sometimes the
people I talk to cannot locate the account in their system and tell me
that the phone number doesn't exist. Some people are able to locate the
account but say that it has been disconnected and there is no way we
could get a bill sent to us for that account. Some people can locate the
account and verify that the line has been disconnected for three years
and that the amount owed is $0.00 and then they say somthing along the
lines of "Huh?" or "I'm not sure what's going on... Hold please." And
eventually I have similar conversations with their managers and the
account representatives and billing people and their managers and their
managers' managers ad naseum.
The outcome of every phone call is that they'll "look into it" and fix
the problem and I might receive one or two more bills depending on when
it's resolved. So I wait a month or two and send the bills back marked
"Not at this address, please fsck off." and then eventually call them
back and go through the whole process again. Lately I just explain to
the phone jockeys that I know it's not their fault and I'm not mad at
them and it's just not their day because I'm about to give them hell.
Then I give them the opportunity to have me yell at their boss which
they seem all too happy to do.
At least it gives me a positive way to vent my aggressions and it's a
lot cheaper than seeing a therapist.
Perplexed,
Elias
bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
>
>So I get a check from Pac Bell today (SBC as they're called now).
>Turns out, they went to the trouble of printing out, signing, sealing
>and stamping a check just to refund me for a whole $0.33.
>
>[...]
>
| 0 |
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