1 00:01:18,460 --> 00:01:20,600 My training is in set design. 2 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:25,020 I went to the Yale Drama School in Set Design to study with Ming Cho Lee. 3 00:01:26,620 --> 00:01:30,980 I've actually only take one course in costume design. 4 00:01:30,980 --> 00:01:35,479 The rest has been monkey see monkey do. 5 00:01:37,620 --> 00:01:39,100 Now, this is the fun part. 6 00:01:48,140 --> 00:01:53,460 I'm not exactly sure when the switch happened from scenery to costumes 7 00:01:53,460 --> 00:01:57,380 But I think it happened as simply as I couldn't get any jobs doing scenery. 8 00:01:57,460 --> 00:02:01,140 when I moved to New York and everyone needed some clothes. 9 00:02:01,260 --> 00:02:04,380 So I'll call William he has something in a bag somewhere. 10 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,300 So that's how it began. 11 00:02:15,220 --> 00:02:20,260 Nine was my first big musical, second musical on Broadway. 12 00:02:20,269 --> 00:02:24,200 It was like right out of the gate and I won this Tony Award. 13 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,950 Thinking back on it, I don't know how that happened. But it did change my life. 14 00:02:27,950 --> 00:02:33,100 And made me feel like, oh I guess, I guess I'm doing this. 15 00:02:38,420 --> 00:02:47,420 I'm always afraid of not being able to come up with an idea. And to counteract that fear of not 16 00:02:47,420 --> 00:02:49,639 being able to think of something. 17 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:56,150 It's why I've developed this amazing, sort of blitz green gathering of images. 18 00:02:56,150 --> 00:03:01,549 Because if you live in a cocoon, like this seller basement of mine, 19 00:03:01,549 --> 00:03:05,920 osmosis it just sort of bombards you with the research, with the feeling, with the energy. 20 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:13,519 I think that helps ward off that fear of designers block and so far 21 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,060 so good the designers block is kept at bay at the moment. 22 00:03:17,060 --> 00:03:19,500 But it doesn't mean I don't have nightmares about it. 23 00:03:19,540 --> 00:03:20,940 Absolutely. 24 00:03:29,300 --> 00:03:34,820 You know when I first started, I took no prisoners. In fact my agent used to get 25 00:03:34,820 --> 00:03:36,110 these little packages. 26 00:03:36,110 --> 00:03:39,180 It had dimes and a Valium in it. 27 00:03:39,220 --> 00:03:44,480 And it was if you're having a panic attack, call me and take a Valium. 28 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:50,860 This lasted through the years, up through 25 cents. So it became quarters and two Valium. 29 00:03:51,100 --> 00:03:55,820 I never took the Valium because I can't even take aspirin and and not be affected. 30 00:03:55,820 --> 00:04:01,880 But, the mere confidence of having the little packages with two quarters and two Valiums 31 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:07,480 in it just was comforting to me. But it also acknowledged I was out of control. 32 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:12,580 I didn't have an overview. I thought everything was life or death. 33 00:04:12,590 --> 00:04:17,089 And I'm going to tell you right now that was the best way to begin. Kids starting out it 34 00:04:17,100 --> 00:04:19,440 has to be life or death. 35 00:04:31,980 --> 00:04:37,860 I never say no to a project. I would say yes and then I figure out how to make it happen. 36 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,680 Because one door opens another and theaters all about relationships. 37 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,650 And I learned that the hard way because when I came into this business, 38 00:04:45,650 --> 00:04:49,640 I had a chip on my shoulder the size of Manhattan. 39 00:04:51,020 --> 00:04:53,620 Growing up in New York City in the 70s, 40 00:04:53,630 --> 00:04:56,770 you can see it as the best of times and the worst of time. 41 00:04:56,770 --> 00:05:02,360 And the city was bankrupt. And I lived in the South Bronx which is a lower income neighborhood. 42 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,340 But within the craziness of the time, 43 00:05:06,340 --> 00:05:09,159 I was able to find beauty. 44 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:14,770 I always was interested in what color people painted their apartments because 45 00:05:14,770 --> 00:05:19,780 in the Bronx, a lot of the buildings were burnt down or abandoned, you can look into 46 00:05:19,780 --> 00:05:22,870 the windows and you can see the different colors. 47 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,340 New York in the 70s 48 00:05:26,349 --> 00:05:32,700 that was the birth of hip-hop and it changed the music we heard, the fashions, 49 00:05:32,700 --> 00:05:36,460 and you can still see it in my aesthetic. 50 00:05:36,460 --> 00:05:42,699 Graffiti, it's pretty much in everything I do, whether it's text. I love text. 51 00:05:42,700 --> 00:05:48,620 I am prone to use bright vibrant colors. So my upbringing is always apart of it. 52 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:10,099 I had a friend in Los Angeles who emailed me to said Project Runway is 53 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:13,840 looking for designers and I think you should audition. 54 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:19,040 But they weren't sure that I had the right fit for the show because I was a costume designer. 55 00:06:19,100 --> 00:06:25,240 Back when I was doing the show, Costume Designers were thought of as a gimmick. 56 00:06:25,249 --> 00:06:29,569 They really didn't see us as Fashion Designers. So I had to go back again and 57 00:06:29,569 --> 00:06:32,560 really prove to them that I was a Fashion Designer. 58 00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:57,480 I learned that I have very little patience for when things don't go my way. 59 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:03,500 And I think TV just amplified that. But also I learned that I can put out good work 60 00:07:03,500 --> 00:07:07,900 under extreme stressful situations and if I follow my instinct, 61 00:07:07,900 --> 00:07:09,720 I could be successful. 62 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,940 A great designer I knew was Charles James. I moved to the Chelsea Hotel. 63 00:07:22,940 --> 00:07:25,480 He lived on the sixth floor. I lived on the fourth floor. 64 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,200 I would send him notes saying, I'd love to meet you, this, and of course 65 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,880 he totally ignored all of them because he would get that all the time. 66 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:36,000 And then, I was making a doll and I was having trouble with the bodice. 67 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,240 And something just occurred to me to write a note. 68 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,600 Dear Mr. James. I'm having problems with this dress. 69 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:47,080 Ten minutes later he came to my apartment and there was the doll. 70 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,060 And he saw the doll and he advised me. He thought I was going the right way. 71 00:07:51,159 --> 00:07:55,200 He said he was, just too bad it was too small. He would love to see it life-sized. 72 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,980 that's what he said. I said well we're starting with the doll. [laughs] 73 00:08:02,580 --> 00:08:04,840 Hello. How are you? 74 00:08:04,980 --> 00:08:06,220 Look where I am. 75 00:08:06,220 --> 00:08:06,980 You're here. 76 00:08:06,980 --> 00:08:08,580 Roof top, yeah. 77 00:08:08,580 --> 00:08:13,060 What I loved about it was the light. When I create I need light. 78 00:08:13,060 --> 00:08:14,980 So you can tell what colors things are. 79 00:08:14,980 --> 00:08:17,540 Exactly. And when I procrastinate, I can look at the stuff. 80 00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:20,440 What do you mean? I feel everything. 81 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,060 Exactly. 82 00:08:22,060 --> 00:08:28,000 I was in Fashion School. I was I think 15/16 maybe and Nine... 83 00:08:28,660 --> 00:08:35,440 You had just done Nine. And that famous lace jumpsuit that Anita Morris wore. 84 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,490 And I remember opening the newspaper and seeing that. I was like whoa what is that? 85 00:08:39,490 --> 00:08:46,060 Now I know why I was so attracted to it. It just changed my, at least my idea of what 86 00:08:46,060 --> 00:08:49,660 costume was because that was more of fashion. 87 00:08:49,660 --> 00:08:54,400 They hadn't done anything like that in theater before and they got so much press. 88 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,440 She was on David Letterman. And I stayed up late one night just to watch her. 89 00:08:58,450 --> 00:09:04,840 And I think it was by using that little ruffle at the ankle and at the cuff. 90 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,840 That's what made it not just a leotard. 91 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,000 It gave it the sensitive side. 92 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:11,900 Do you know why I added it? 93 00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:12,470 Why did you add it? 94 00:09:12,470 --> 00:09:15,000 No I don't know. I'm fascinated by that story. 95 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,120 Because the ankles were small 96 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:23,340 yeah and I wanted the curve to stay and not go pointy. So I gave it out a little 97 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:29,340 flamenco energy to give it a little Va va va Voom! Then it goes out, you know. 98 00:09:29,340 --> 00:09:30,880 And she decided to go for it. 99 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:32,880 It changed her career. 100 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,880 It did. It changed all our careers. Oh, my goodness. 101 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:41,300 Well I didn't realize that this interested you. 102 00:09:41,300 --> 00:09:44,700 That's I think the power of theater. 103 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,800 It transcends generations, 104 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:54,800 color lines, economic boundaries and your people are in a dark sharing of story 105 00:09:55,420 --> 00:09:56,500 What's in this room? 106 00:09:56,500 --> 00:09:58,400 Oh this room. Oh you have to come see this. 107 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,800 This is like where the actual work gets done. 108 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:03,620 I have my brother... 109 00:10:03,620 --> 00:10:05,570 You can tell how tall you are. 110 00:10:05,570 --> 00:10:10,380 I'm telling you this.... Some of my favorite times with my actor is in the fitting room. 111 00:10:10,460 --> 00:10:12,220 That's when I get into their heads. 112 00:10:12,340 --> 00:10:14,700 And then how does it starts a fitting, say 113 00:10:14,740 --> 00:10:17,060 you start with a what? a mirror 114 00:10:17,060 --> 00:10:19,620 A mirror and underwear. 115 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:24,760 Yeah mirror and underwear. Let's get everything where it needs to be. 116 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,380 Where you feel comfortable and then I don't ask them do you like something, 117 00:10:29,390 --> 00:10:34,190 I ask my first question to an actor is tell me about the character. Who is she? 118 00:10:34,190 --> 00:10:38,560 Where did you go to school? What kind of music do you listen to? 119 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:44,240 Are you a high heel girl? Which they all say yeah no matter what the role is. 120 00:10:44,980 --> 00:10:53,700 What do you do when men want to wear... What waist, waistline on man period vs. contemporary. 121 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,780 Well, what did you do with Porgy and Bess with waistline? 122 00:10:58,780 --> 00:11:01,740 Well here's the thing and for me sometimes the little tricky because I 123 00:11:01,740 --> 00:11:06,580 come in with these modern waist, my pants are lower and my hips and then I'm trying 124 00:11:06,590 --> 00:11:11,240 to teach them or get them to wear their pants at their natural waist. 125 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,680 The navel. That's totally completely different for the 126 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:20,840 youth for young people today. But I just I just make them do it, and, and then when 127 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,710 they don't want to do it, I just put a pair of suspenders on. 128 00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:27,060 to make sure... and then I stitch them. 129 00:11:27,060 --> 00:11:29,960 That's the trick. Cause they'll drop them down. 130 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,920 I realize that men are fussier than women. 131 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,980 Because we don't have a lot of different things to wear. We wear a pair of pants everyday, 132 00:11:38,980 --> 00:11:43,800 a shirt or tee shirt or a jacket. That's what we wear everyday. 133 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:48,160 So that that suit has to say everything. 134 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,760 Because they don't have five different changes. 135 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,740 Also men throughout history have really been peacock themselves too. 136 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:03,620 One longs for the 17th century and Louis the 14th because then you can then its peacock alley. 137 00:12:03,620 --> 00:12:08,940 It is a natural thing for men to have the plumage, all the birds, nature. 138 00:12:08,940 --> 00:12:11,900 The men always have, the males have the bright colors. 139 00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:16,420 Do you see it coming back now with so much freedom. With pop culture 140 00:12:16,420 --> 00:12:20,480 and the performers. Do you see where men are being more experimental with color 141 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,600 or are they just like performers and not really people. 142 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,520 I wish that that were so. 143 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,900 In fact, the skinny suits, and the boys, and the young gay boys, and the young straight 144 00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:36,030 metrosexual boys, and I would love all that. I mean it's wishing, right 145 00:12:36,030 --> 00:12:37,320 But, wishin don't make it so. 146 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:42,120 I haven't done a job where I can't look back and look at something you've done. 147 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,110 I remember Annie Get Your Gun was so influential because I was working at 148 00:12:46,110 --> 00:12:51,240 Matera's at the time and you did all that wonderful leather, all those chaps. 149 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,460 But they weren't like normal chaps. These were like the most beautiful chaps. 150 00:12:55,460 --> 00:12:56,680 Sexy Chaps. 151 00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:59,140 But just the craftsmanship. 152 00:12:59,260 --> 00:13:05,120 Willa, oh you know is my hero oh and sort of got me started in the business. 153 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:11,520 I saw her work on PBS in the early seventies, late sixties early seventies. 154 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,250 And I just thought someone can do that. 155 00:13:14,250 --> 00:13:18,330 That's a job. We could make a living. You can do that. I didn't know that that 156 00:13:18,330 --> 00:13:25,260 level of art could be done with and she had done the sets and the costumes for this ballet. 157 00:13:25,900 --> 00:13:30,400 And it was in Black and White on television. 158 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:35,740 What it is is about that one about black, how do you do black and white and still 159 00:13:35,740 --> 00:13:40,120 keep it dynamic and interesting for the audience without getting repetitive. 160 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,830 You gave me an amazing an amazing trick about the skin tones. 161 00:13:44,830 --> 00:13:48,190 How you bring the skin tone. It's not just Black and White. 162 00:13:48,190 --> 00:13:52,000 You have to bring that because it has to, somehow you have to soften it in. 163 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:59,280 Permission and of course, you know who did that so beautifully is Willa. 164 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,420 She always painted skin tones into the leotards. 165 00:14:03,430 --> 00:14:07,900 Yes and so you didn't know where the color was coming. 166 00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:11,740 She wanted them to be basically naked yeah well who doesn't? 167 00:14:11,740 --> 00:14:17,380 but uh and so she discovered that was the key with Sally Ann Parsons. 168 00:14:17,380 --> 00:14:21,220 So we're gonna go see Willa. Oh cool. Hopefully she'll have... 169 00:14:21,220 --> 00:14:24,640 I don't know whether she has sketches. You know, she's also right at the edge of tomorrow. 170 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:25,980 Cutting edge. 171 00:14:25,980 --> 00:14:27,320 You're my hero. 172 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,100 You're my hero. 173 00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:31,100 Thank you for today. 174 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,060 I've been wearing this outfit for decades. 175 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:42,400 White shirt, stripe tie, navy blazer, khaki pants, black shoes. Now there have been variations 176 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:47,650 for some reason, deeply psychological things, I have forgotten, but a wee 177 00:14:47,650 --> 00:14:50,440 period during the seventies I were blue jeans. 178 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:51,980 Whoo-hoo what was I thinking. 179 00:14:52,140 --> 00:14:57,060 The worst thing a costume designer can wear are interesting clothes. 180 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:02,980 Nothing destroys confidence like cleverly inventive clothes worn by 181 00:15:02,980 --> 00:15:08,590 your costume or wardrobe person because it means you are spending time thinking 182 00:15:08,590 --> 00:15:09,910 about yourself. 183 00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:16,080 You need to save all of your energy and design essence for the work. 184 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:24,540 I have Kander and Ebbs Chicago running now in its18-year. Sometimes the fabrics are no 185 00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:28,780 longer available so I have to choose other fabrics and actually I love this. 186 00:15:28,780 --> 00:15:33,040 I mean what a wonderful problem to have. Oh the costumes are falling apart 187 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:40,740 You hope the shows run forever and, but when they don't, I try very hard to get the 188 00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:42,920 producers to give them to me. 189 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,790 Gosh I'm going to fabric stores and I find fabrics that I should have used in 190 00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:50,600 a play that ended two years ago and I buy it. 191 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,780 I buy the fabric. I have bins of fabric of shoulda woulda coulda bins. 192 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,920 That sit up there. And sometimes I reuse them. But usually I just collect them. 193 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:06,640 Because for m e it's completing a process and I owe it to the memory of that production. 194 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,080 It's sort of crazy but I could be on a guest episode of hoarders. 195 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:16,600 This is my concept board for Cinderella. I always at the end of one show I have 196 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:22,420 one board that is just for that show and has the essence of that show. 197 00:16:22,430 --> 00:16:25,160 And I'd leave it on it especially if it's still running. 198 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,510 I was trying to figure out I wanted, during the ball scene, the ballroom scene 199 00:16:29,510 --> 00:16:33,410 you know, it's very aspirational who doesn't want to marry a prince and I was 200 00:16:33,410 --> 00:16:42,620 trying to show my costume houses that I wanted to see through these dresses like this. 201 00:16:42,620 --> 00:16:46,680 And I couldn't. I was trying to invent something so I made this little doll. 202 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,860 And you know what it worked because I was able to take a look the little doll and 203 00:16:50,860 --> 00:16:55,459 of course everyone laughed very indulgently at me and they said William and his dolls... 204 00:16:55,459 --> 00:16:56,630 But, here we go. 205 00:16:56,630 --> 00:16:59,140 And so all the ball gowns are like this. 206 00:17:00,740 --> 00:17:02,900 Bullets Over Broadway is a backstage 207 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:07,540 musical and the story is basically no one wants to give any money except for 208 00:17:07,550 --> 00:17:11,720 the gangster who said i'll give you money for your show but my girlfriend 209 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,579 has to have a big role in it. 210 00:17:13,579 --> 00:17:19,160 That's old story, in fact it still happens today. in fact it's one of my shows right now. 211 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:26,150 Anyway because we're overexposed to gangsters at the moment I just some 212 00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:30,040 trying to very hard to make my take on it different. 213 00:17:30,860 --> 00:17:34,320 I've lined them up like this because these are all the gangsters. 214 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:40,970 Here's the set and all this color is this is based on this art deco door. 215 00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:43,760 I like turning it upside down because then you're not reading it. 216 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:44,940 So the interesting thing to do, 217 00:17:44,940 --> 00:17:50,100 which is very exciting for me, is to try to keep that color, very strict color scheme 218 00:17:50,100 --> 00:17:54,780 so you've got like all these gangsters on stage, but you want them all 219 00:17:54,780 --> 00:17:58,650 to be tied together in front of this. Well there aren't enough colors in this. 220 00:17:58,650 --> 00:18:05,430 And then I found this wonderful Bug picture 1925, which actually has 221 00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:07,680 little bits green little bits of blue. 222 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:12,060 That's sort of a peach but anyway that's that's the job that's the assignment. 223 00:18:12,060 --> 00:18:17,550 Because unlike a film we see all these people on stage head to toe. 224 00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:22,590 I have to help the audience know where to look. In fact often on stage, 225 00:18:22,590 --> 00:18:27,510 I have the leading ladies understudy standing next to her. 226 00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:32,490 Well guess what? I've got to, I often tell her, I said darling I'm so terribly 227 00:18:32,490 --> 00:18:35,340 sorry I have a bear you under a bushel. 228 00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:50,860 I still wake up in the morning so excited about what I'm doing. 229 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,140 My favorite centerpiece of my life is in the fitting room. 230 00:18:58,820 --> 00:19:06,440 I'm often aware of the fact the body language and fitting. I can always tell that aha moment. 231 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,780 It's very exciting because then they can see themselves being transformed. 232 00:19:11,310 --> 00:19:14,490 I often start with vintage underwear. 233 00:19:14,490 --> 00:19:18,030 Even though no one will see. It's like the inside of a pocket books. 234 00:19:18,030 --> 00:19:24,840 I always fill pocketbooks with compacts and period lipstick and period handkerchiefs that helped 235 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,840 someone realized this is where I am this is what I'm doing. 236 00:19:37,910 --> 00:19:42,470 I was, I think I was, six maybe I was five or four, but I had this wonderful 237 00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:47,930 dog named Manteo and she would follow me everywhere, you know, move when I moved 238 00:19:47,930 --> 00:19:52,940 and sit when I sat. I got a needle and thread and I had the end of a pillowcase. 239 00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:58,700 that was already hemmed. And I remember taking, I remember this 240 00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:01,660 taking the needle and thread and going in and out all the way around. 241 00:20:01,660 --> 00:20:05,480 I think I ran out of thread or something I remember and I thought oh I have to get 242 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:12,320 around there and I pulled it and I invented pleating and I put it on my dog 243 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:17,570 and I tightened it more and it was a rough a ruffled collar for my dog. 244 00:20:17,570 --> 00:20:22,040 I invented it. That was my first my first costume. 245 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:42,920 I love the news. 246 00:20:45,940 --> 00:20:50,470 JPMorgan's legal hurdles expected to multiply. 247 00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:53,470 Well that's all they need. 248 00:20:53,470 --> 00:20:56,530 Speedy trains transform China. 249 00:20:57,220 --> 00:21:04,560 Well I would think so. Blackberry buyout offer raises questions. 250 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,620 Army of questions. I can't believe this. 251 00:21:08,620 --> 00:21:13,500 I should try to clean this thing up. It's just awful. 252 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:19,720 And here it... hang on. 253 00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:22,980 and Julie Andrews. 254 00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:33,700 I designed her costumes for her in one of the shows that she was, I guess the last one she did. 255 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:42,700 what's so funny is that I brought around a lot of stuff and she picked what she liked. 256 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,400 When it was all over she asked me what happened to the rest of 257 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,000 them she wanted to keep them. 258 00:21:49,940 --> 00:21:51,940 [doorbell rings] 259 00:22:07,020 --> 00:22:10,020 William. I knew it was you. 260 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,020 Oh you're dressed. 261 00:22:14,940 --> 00:22:18,580 I was just going to change. 262 00:22:18,580 --> 00:22:20,580 Well don't change. Never change. 263 00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:27,690 I haven't been here in a while. 264 00:22:27,690 --> 00:22:33,090 Uh-huh you remember? I remember everything that, it's crazy. 265 00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:40,340 It's when the Emperor, who is on his deathbed, and about to die and Rusenyow sings 266 00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:44,260 and then he wakes up. So he doesn't die. 267 00:22:44,260 --> 00:22:49,590 And it's in color but when I saw it when I saw it on PBS 268 00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:51,960 broadcast it was in black and white. 269 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,910 Watching that made me want to become a designer. I was in Art history 270 00:22:56,910 --> 00:22:58,840 I was gonna write ... 271 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,660 I know I know about you, you're an intellectual. 272 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,940 Well, I want to be everything. 273 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,940 Later, because I didn't have a playbill. I found out that you had 274 00:23:10,950 --> 00:23:14,430 designed the scenery, and costumes, and props. 275 00:23:14,430 --> 00:23:18,870 So you're the exact reason I wanted to do this for a living. 276 00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:22,000 This crazy thing we do. Oh so there it's your fault. 277 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,000 It's my fault. 278 00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:27,480 That's the best thing I've done. 279 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:35,130 oh haha William you're such an addition to our trade our craft of whatever it is we do. 280 00:23:35,130 --> 00:23:36,540 It's a trade. 281 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,040 Really it's an art. It's an art form. 282 00:23:41,070 --> 00:23:44,760 I always wanted to be an artist so don't... 283 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,360 Don't tell me I'm a tradesperson. 284 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:50,520 You know? I never studied design. 285 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:51,380 No? 286 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,320 No. I didn't know it existed. 287 00:23:54,320 --> 00:24:01,280 I was an artist. I was going to be an artist. And I got a job without a portfolio 288 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:06,940 at The May company in LA and within two weeks of doing their full page ads. 289 00:24:06,940 --> 00:24:12,000 I was just... a mad success, you know? 290 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,300 And making all this money. 291 00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:18,620 Well I thought it was a lot of money. I think it was forty five dollars a week. 292 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:25,720 And then Paramount called. Paramount offered me 75 dollars a week. 293 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,780 And I said no I'm happy. I'm doing what I want to do/ 294 00:24:29,780 --> 00:24:35,540 And then I was telling this man sitting behind me at The May company and he said, 295 00:24:35,540 --> 00:24:40,100 you have to take it because not many designers get that offer. 296 00:24:40,180 --> 00:24:44,380 So I went and then I thought what am I doing here? 297 00:24:44,380 --> 00:24:49,820 You know? This isn't what I wanna do. I'm hanging around sound stages doing nothing. 298 00:24:49,820 --> 00:24:54,350 And it's all a big factory and I'm unhappy. 299 00:24:54,350 --> 00:25:01,370 So this woman, this stately woman walked by me and she saw me loitering because 300 00:25:01,370 --> 00:25:06,320 I didn't know what I was doing there. I was just hanging around Paramount. 301 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,380 And she asked me to do some color samples for her for these sketches. 302 00:25:11,390 --> 00:25:19,700 And it was Karinska. Then she wanted to find out and said 303 00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:21,380 I want that girl to be my assistant. 304 00:25:21,380 --> 00:25:27,260 When I realized who she was. It wasn't just meeting designers. 305 00:25:27,260 --> 00:25:32,510 You know meeting designers, Hollywood designers is not that great, at least done as an artist. 306 00:25:32,510 --> 00:25:40,140 You think of them as a tradespeople or something. 307 00:25:42,820 --> 00:25:47,440 Through her I met all these wonderful artists that she knew. 308 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,240 Who were some of the artists you met through Karinska then? 309 00:25:51,900 --> 00:25:54,260 Well, Raoul Pène du Bois. 310 00:25:54,260 --> 00:25:55,960 He brought her to Paramount. 311 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,160 To do his movie Lady in the Dark. Frenchman's creek. 312 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:06,280 So I go visit him at MGM and wait for him and he'd be busy or something. 313 00:26:07,780 --> 00:26:11,420 And then he'd come up and he said to me, you know who you are 314 00:26:11,420 --> 00:26:16,100 sitting next to? And I said, no. He said Marlene 315 00:26:16,100 --> 00:26:21,110 I said I'm sitting next to Dietrich? The whole time I didn't even look at her. 316 00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:23,660 I didn't look at her. I didn't recognize her. 317 00:26:23,660 --> 00:26:29,200 So funny. There's Balanchine. I'm sitting right next to him. 318 00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:32,900 And which is Raoul? 319 00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:37,080 This one back here right next to Karinska. 320 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,340 That's Raoul's boyfriend. 321 00:26:41,340 --> 00:26:44,820 I tell you isn't an extraordinary education . 322 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:51,780 I wanted to be a designer. I couldn't pick the two most important people in costumes and sets 323 00:26:51,780 --> 00:26:55,540 than Karinska and Raoul Pène du Bois. 324 00:26:55,540 --> 00:26:57,350 and where does Balanchine fit into this? 325 00:26:57,350 --> 00:27:01,240 Well he was married to an actress. 326 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,400 So he was a Stage-door Johnny or was he choreographing the movie? 327 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:11,360 He was a Stage-door Johnny. He had an eye for girls. 328 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:19,680 These are the ballets that I did. 329 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,980 You know who he is? 330 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,800 Baryshnikov. He was the most beautiful dancer. 331 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,900 It's fun to look at all these paints. 332 00:27:48,900 --> 00:27:50,900 I've never seen you do this. 333 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,020 Oh look on the other side this is a ballet. 334 00:27:57,020 --> 00:27:59,660 This is the bottom of a tutu. 335 00:28:16,610 --> 00:28:20,330 You're involved in dance from the very beginning. 336 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,070 You see the choreographer talks about an idea. 337 00:28:25,070 --> 00:28:30,820 Then he or she is working on expressing that idea in movement. 338 00:28:30,820 --> 00:28:40,360 And you're involved from that moment on and trying to create the idea in through dance. 339 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:46,500 And so I think your involvement is deeper, 340 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:55,320 Plays of course, it can do that too, but they're pretty much, well so is dance, 341 00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:00,860 done for an audience. But, you're not aware of that as much. 342 00:29:01,740 --> 00:29:05,980 You're involved with the idea of what the dance is about. 343 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:16,060 I remember doing a play and having a fitting with two women. 344 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:25,780 And they had been talking about me and how little I, you know, she knows and they were really 345 00:29:25,790 --> 00:29:31,669 terribly superior and and, oh god what am I gonna do? 346 00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:38,990 So I went in and a friend of mine came up at the fitting and she said, 347 00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:45,770 Oh did you read what Jonathan Miller wrote about you in the New York Times. 348 00:29:45,770 --> 00:29:51,440 And I said no I haven't had a chance to. So I found it. It was a wonderful article. 349 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,330 And those two bitches who were in the play, 350 00:29:56,990 --> 00:30:02,510 naturally saw it because he was their director as well as mine. 351 00:30:02,510 --> 00:30:07,780 And so I didn't have to defend myself at all. 352 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:09,640 It was there in print. 353 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:24,039 It's always that early in your life you remember those things because you're so 354 00:30:24,039 --> 00:30:31,509 raw and emotional about what you're doing because you're so vulnerable when 355 00:30:31,509 --> 00:30:35,080 you're a young designer. You know.... 356 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:44,230 You're so lucky to get the job and then not to shortchange the director, 357 00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:49,700 or whoever is terrible, you just, you never get over that. 358 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,220 They have to go through it and harden themselves. 359 00:30:54,220 --> 00:30:59,109 It prepares you for your next director your next show. 360 00:30:59,109 --> 00:31:05,980 And it toughens you but also you learn from these things. 361 00:31:19,180 --> 00:31:21,820 I always say three things. 362 00:31:21,820 --> 00:31:24,840 When you're starting out, you're a puppy dog. 363 00:31:25,180 --> 00:31:29,120 a golden retriever; You are licking with your tongue. 364 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,200 You're so excited you're jumping up knocking people over. 365 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,600 Then the second moment in life: 366 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,740 Shakespeare had seven ages of man. I have three. 367 00:31:36,740 --> 00:31:43,940 The second one is knowledge. You learn. You understand. You have knowledge. 368 00:31:43,940 --> 00:31:48,000 You make discerning choices and you're a professional. 369 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,680 The third and final stage 370 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:59,630 is wisdom and wisdom has the effect of you sit in you're comfortable chair, 371 00:31:59,630 --> 00:32:04,760 you have your single malt scotch right at your hand, and you go you know maybe 372 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,350 we just don't do that. 373 00:32:06,350 --> 00:32:10,340 I just hope wisdom doesn't take over. 374 00:32:22,140 --> 00:32:24,140 [End Credits]